What do you think about what’s happening in Texas

submitted by HeimdeklediROAR from (self.GCdebatesQT)

Do you think the governor and attorney general are right to try to take trans identifying kids away from their supportive parents under the rationale that it’s child abuse.

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[–]worried19 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would rather they go after the doctors who are giving drugs to and performing surgeries on underage children.

There are two types of parents. Parents who are blindsided by a teenager's trans announcement, and parents who are actively transitioning very young children. Some parents in both camps may be well meaning, but many parents in the latter camp are primarily interested in establishing a cross-sex identity for their child and medicalizing them as soon as possible. If they are procuring drugs and surgeries for their children in Texas or elsewhere, I think they should be held accountable. But I would rather see the hammer fall on the doctors who are facilitating this. The parents are not performing these surgeries or prescribing these drugs themselves.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like I agree with what it is trying to address, but it doesn’t seem right for the state to go after parents who are probably meaning well and just listening to advice about how to best help their child. Some of them probably are genuinely bad people or living out something through their children, but not most. We should move to care standards that are more like what Sweden recently did, but this seems like overreach to me. It makes me wonder if my parents would have been targeted under this since I socially transitioned and received hormone treatment as a minor.

Trans activism seems largely to blame for laws like this to me though. Years ago, some younger trans people would quietly get treatment and live their lives, but TRAs choose to turn this into such a political issue I feel like. I know that conservatives are pushing it now, but I feel like it’s a reaction to how much this is being pushed rather than something that would have happened anyway. I feel like conditions were better for transsexuals during Bush rather whatever nonsense moment this is. I don’t know why TRAs felt like the world needed to change. It didn’t. We were fine. We didn’t need “cis”, the pronoun nonsense, males in women’s sports, trans toddlers, or all these creeps coming out as trans. This backlash is well-deserved unfortunately.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It is child abuse and good on them for attempting to prevent it. Fuck Abbott in general but what’s that saying about broken clocks being right sometimes?

Also love how here you call it “trans identified” but act as if adult trans people actually identify as the opposite sex instead of as trans lol.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am personally against the "affirmation-only" model as some people do regret transitioning. Kids are also more likely to be easily influenced/pressured by adults. But criminalizing all physical transition for minors is going to far. I do think standards of care should be developed for trans kids, including being able to identify kids likely to regret transitioning in the future. Also in most states you can get a tattoo at 16. If you're old enough to get a tattoo, you're old enough to start hormones.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Would you agree on an established age limit for cross-sex hormones?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes.

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's good to hear. What do you think the age limit should be?

[–]censorshipment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I think sexual abuse, molestation, and incest are much bigger issues in Texas. They should test children and parents for STDs. Mandatory tests in every household nationwide. The quarantines and lockdowns surely impacted most (at least 51% of) children sexually. How many children have "cold sores" (herpes)? Does Governor Abbott know?

My ex-girlfriend said she's been getting cold sores since she was about 5. She's from Texas and was molested by several male relatives. No one asked her parents who the fuck gave her herpes.

This trans shit is just a distraction.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I think it’s also red meat for his conservative base. In a vacuum though do you think it’s a good policy?

[–]censorshipment 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Abused children shouldn't live with abusers.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

And what makes these parents abusers when they’re following the advice of every credible major medical association in the U.S.?

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

But trans kids don't exist. According to every study on desistance, childhood gender dysphoria is an indication of latent homosexuality. Desistance occurs naturally up to 95% of the time. Transition is quite literally conversion & doesn't even cure GD, unlike desistance.

As far as I know there is no scientific excerpt (not even in the US) that makes the "TWAW" claim, so if by "supportive" you mean parents who tell their gay sons that they are girls, then "every credible major medical association" is both anti-science & homophobic.

At best you'll end up with some gay people like Blaire White, who are too effeminate to attract the average gay man, but too male to attract the average straight man. This is possibly the only demographic that would benefit from medical transition, but this is only known after they have fully matured i.e. they're not children. Transsexuals shouldn't have to turn themselves inside out (almost literally) in order to resemble the opposite sex. They should be recognised for what they are: very effeminate gay males, as well as the sexual orientation of those attracted to them: gynandromorphophilia.

All the straight people, whether they are female teen ROGDs, or middle-aged male AGPs, are just appropriating GNC gay people. It's just some, middle-class, neurotic identity crisis. Undeserving of sympathy.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

That is a new low for you, snow, you saying ROGD teen girls are just appropriating GNC gay people (you sure you didn't mean just GNC gay men) and don't deserve sympathy. And you putting them in the same bag as AGP men. And yet you think of yourself as THE feminist expert...

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I feel like ROGD teen girls are very much deserving of sympathy and I would not agree with most of what Snow said, but my understanding is ROGD types are often trying to appropriate gay male identities, even if it’s often through a super distorted lens (like Yaoi for instance). The underlying reasons for it are different than AGPs appropriating lesbian identities for instance, but everything I’ve read about ROGD makes me think that is a part of it often times. Am I wrong?

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

As far as I read most ROGD teen girls are same-sex attracted. Among trans identified youth, you can observe many more teens with mental illnes and history of trauma than in the general population. From what I heard from detrans females females who identfy as trans, many of them seem to be trying to escape mysogyny and sexist expectations regardless of their sexual orientation. So, even when talking about heterosexual girls who claim to be really "gay men" just like in yaoi, I don't think is accurate to say they're just appropriating gay identities (disclaimer: I'm not justifying their behaviour towards gay men, although I'll argue female do not pose the same threath to gay men than males do to lesbians). Besides, we know many children and teens of both sexes are being groomed by adults and, thus, they have not discovered their "true authentic selves" on their own.

And to complicate matters, I've heard of some cases where the "gay" identified females are really females who identify as "men" dating each other.

[–]SnowAssMan 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

No, ROGD teen girls are heterosexual, almost exclusively. You'd probably find a reason to disagree with me if I said water is wet.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Says the guy who claimed the existence of sex chromosomes and sex-linked inheritance is advanced level biology that people from English speaking countries don't learn about before going to university.

The people at Tavistock joked that soon there wouldn't be any more gay people in England because so many of their patients were same-sex attracted. But even if ROGD teen girls were all heterosexual, why are you putting them in the same bag as midle ages AGP? Especially when the latter are likely to be among their groomers.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My understanding was that most ROGD teens are opposite-sex attracted. Part of what was unusual about the trans-identified peer groups in Litman’s original study is that they weren’t of the GNC lesbian type that was typical previously more for trans identification in females. I’m sure some ROGD teens could be lesbians, but it wasn’t my impression it was most. I don’t mean to say at all that I think the motivations or risks at the same as males appropriating lesbian identities, but it doesn’t make sense to me to say there isn’t any appropriation of gay male identities. There are other factors too so I’m not saying that as like it’s something super malicious they are doing, but it feels like we have to acknowledge that a little.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what are you talking about. I was just objecting to Snow's comment. I'm not denying there are teen girls identifying as "gay men" nor I'm justifying their behaviour.

[–]grassfed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You very very right snowassman

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Major medical establishments are just groups of people and medicine cannot possibly be standardised because it would require things like definitions, specifications, measurements, and other objective data you insist cannot be used to understand anything.

Heim you can’t even talk about child abuse because your own paradigm doesn’t allow for “child” or “abuse” to exist as quantifiable things.