all 24 comments

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Portugal decriminalized all drugs about 20 years ago. All drug usage and addiction rates across the country dropped in half.

What does that tell you? If reducing addicts is a top priority, decriminalization is the obvious way to go. It turns out people are more willing to seek help when they're not afraid of being arrested.

[–]sawboss[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It turns out people are more willing to seek help when they're not afraid of being arrested.

It makes perfect sense when you think about it. Do you imagine the same applies to sex work?

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Maybe, but I'm not sure it's quite exactly the same.

[–]sawboss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right, it's not exactly the same. I am less certain about prostitution than drugs, because the potential for harm seems great. That's why I've invested some minimal effort into researching what sex workers have to say about it. You've seen the links I've shared on the topic, I think. It seems like the women who are willing to discuss the topic want sex work to be legal.

I hope to get some more input from you all than just upvotes/ignores. That's one reason I opend this thread. If we can debunk the idea that legalization would encourage more of it then maybe some people's worries can be soothed with reason.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They also reinvested the drug war money into rehab institutions.

[–]poestal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but you also see in the states with say oregon have also decriminalized drugs and instituted safe injection sites and there has been increased homelessness, theft, overdosing, and mental illness.

in my opinion, the lenient attitude that portland has in regards to the homeless/addicts create an enabling environment for them that only encourage the lifestyle that they have.

[–]kazenmusic 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

<Do you think de-criminalizing an activity amounts to endorsing that activity?>

Not sure that's the right question. Endorsing it or not involves your opinion (to which you are entitled), but just like prohibition, it has little or nothing to do with 'demand'.

Sexual markets will always be with us. They always have been, and by comparison with the past, we are relatively repressed. It makes sense to me that with legalization could come the opportunity to increase everyone's safety and health.

The problem with this, as with other things we are seeing, is that it opens the door to degeneracy. IMO children are exposed to a level of sexuality these days that is harmful because they don't get to develop on their own, their consent and timing of knowledge is removed by a permissive society. Especially now with the internet and porn, an eight-year-old with no filters can learn things I still have not figured out for myself at 72. So how to deal with that...

[–]sawboss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The problem with this, as with other things we are seeing, is that it opens the door to degeneracy.

I don't believe that. I believe prohibition and social repression of <insert thing> makes that thing more interesting for curious youngsters. Because prostitution is hidden in black markets few see the negative outcomes of irresponsible behavior or abuse. Because sex workers are shunned few feel compelled to offer help when needed. Because selling (or buying) sex is illegal, sex workers don't get the legal protections offered to workers in other service industries.

[–]kazenmusic 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Personally, I always thought the Vestal Virgins were a great idea!

[–]sawboss[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Vestal Virgins

So what activities should women be barred from if they refuse to be abstain from sex?

[–]kazenmusic 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No one should be barred from anything that makes them happy, IMO. I don't exactly understand what you're saying here, but I agree with your initial premise that legalizing sex work would solve a lot of problems.

[–]sawboss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Vestal Virgins were acolytes of the Vesta cult who were allowed to own property on the condition that they abstained from sex.

[–]slabgreen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Prostitution aside, do you think it's harmful to children to know about sex and sexuality? Why?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

People don't need better laws, but better education. If the people don't understand why abusing your own body or the body of another person is wrong, they will continuously try to learn it by doing and weaken themselves and each other just more and more with that. It is probably installed this way on purpose, as we all are aware of the fact that secret services are deeply involved in human trafficking and drug cartels. Instead of proper education, the people, as they are forcibly reduced to consurism, only get stricter laws from above to handle the cesspit they're living in due to generations of decline in moral and ethical values wich once were fought and consolidated by the previous generations. By history we can see how the people were led into this direction on purpose by those who they gave responsibility over all their lives. The people shall consume, even each other: the once complex human being is now reduced to be the consumer and product for consuming at the same time, like a vampire sucking on its own vein, so it cannot get strength and will stay in a deprived, weak and numb state of mind forever. My true belief is that in a properly educated world, there would be no issues with drug abuse and prostitution or criminality at all, because this things would't take place in a world of educated mind.

[–]sawboss[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

My proposal to solve all those problems is to get the government out of the business of regulating human behavior.

  • eliminate all prohibition of behavior
  • optionally tax and regulate voluntary exchanges of money for behavior only as necessary to protect the parties involved
  • eliminate all public education after grade 6 to minimize the trauma of young people

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I believe that the only solution is the right education on the subjects. For example, teach young folks to have sex for the sake of love only - and not just for personal arousement and satisfaction, as it gets propagated these days. Teach them how to do it right with the drugs, too. The modern "all drugs are evil"-education on the kids does nothing good to them and as soon as they find out that the adults lied about harmless stuff, the risk of them trying about the harder stuff as well gets highly increased. All we can do to make this world a better place is better education on our kids, we cannot expect them to find the way on their own, we must show them. Or else they will lead mankind just even further into degeneration. "Do what you want" isn't meant to waste your wishes. We also can't expect any government to help us out, those people are living in a parallel society, we are just livestock to them. It is on the people to get their shit together. I know, that isn't very hopeful either, but it would be the only proper solution in my opinion.

[–]sawboss[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

teach young folks to have sex for the sake of love only - and not just for personal arousement and satisfaction,

My understanding is that is currently illegal in America's public schools. Sad.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I've made similiar experience. A plenty of people get really angry when you mention love in any way, most of those people are young folks that hadn't had any other education on that topic than internet porn.

[–]sawboss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I guess that's true.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What if you love drugs?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You don't love the drugs, but the drugs love you.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They did treat me quite well.

[–]Cydramech 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Endorsement requires providing an active promotion of an item, person, or idea.

Meanwhile, if legalizing/decriminalizing something is an endorsement, then I would argue anything short of killing people is an endorsement of their beliefs, opinions, or ideological views. Decriminalizing or legalizing is a passive toleration just as letting people live whom share things you despise is, after all.

[–]sawboss[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good point. There's no force involved in simply allowing people to voluntarily exchange money for desirable goods or services.