all 27 comments

[–]Justin 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Damn, us poor bastards in the lower brackets got shafted.

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

And the very top is getting away with outright theft compared to everyone else. Not only do we not have a progressive taxation system, we don't even have a flat tax, we have a regressive tax system! No one would design the system this way except the hyper-rich

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And they divide the people as they continue to steal from us, hoping we bicker among ourselves about trivial matters that they manufactured.

At the end of the Roman Empire, indeed, greed, corruption, immorality/demoralization, thievery of the majority to an elite minority is what caused her downfall. We are the iron and clay of revelation. The U.S is the new Rome, and will fall just the same as Rome in antiquity fell.

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think as civilization collapses, people begin to suffer, and their suffering makes them ask questions that unveil broken parts, and look for people to blame, all of which makes the thing collapse even faster. But it always rebuilds later

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    The people who pay the lowest tax rate are the hyper-wealthy, because they can hire tax lawyers to find loopholes. Warren Buffet famously remarked he pays less on taxes than his secretary.

    [–]Butttcandy 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

    Yup when AOC and Bernie talk about taxing the rich, they are talking about the old tax models when America was thriving. No cap. Make America great again

    [–]magnora7[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

    I agree, we need 90% tax rates on anyone earning more than 10 million a year, like we had in the 1950s. It would help so much. But now the tax rate is lower than ever, billionaires can afford more lawyers to find more loopholes.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    People who are rich can afford to shelter their money in foreign entities or investment vehicles, and/or just move.

    France has experimented with this.

    The actual effect of these sorts of taxes is to entrench the current oligarchs and prevent new ones from arising. It's why you see them supported by people like Warren Buffet and the Rothschilds (who hold "Trillions" in assets).

    At best such a move can be considered unenforceable virtue signalling. At worst it's actively detrimental to the health and competitiveness of the nation.

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20141229/france-75-percent-super-tax-rich-scrapped-damage

    [–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    The actual effect of these sorts of taxes is to entrench the current oligarchs and prevent new ones from arising.

    Disagree, we saw a booming middle class in the 1950s, mostly funded by these taxes on the hyper-wealthy.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    The booming middle class in the 1950's was funded by real money and the fact that we were the only first world country that didn't get fucked up in WW2.

    We dropped real money in the 70's and the consequences to the middle class have been disastrous.

    http://www.unz.com/article/one-third-of-american-workers-pay-is-being-stolen-heres-how/

    [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    The booming middle class in the 1950's was funded by real money and the fact that we were the only first world country that didn't get fucked up in WW2.

    Partly, but also partly because of the huge tax rates on the highest tax brackets. Look at these tax brackets from the 1950s: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hitLCGRQuKU/TjyAfiJY8XI/AAAAAAAAB6g/d_2UJUgtjr4/s800/1950s%252520Tax%252520Rates.JPG

    Yet this was simultaneously the era of henry ford and many other american inventors and businessmen that became billionaires, dispelling the myth that high taxes on the super-wealthy causes billionaires to leave the country. It's like we won't even try, and it's because billionaires write all US laws for the last 30 years.

    I agree the inflation caused by our monetary system after the nixon shock also played a huge role.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Partly, but also partly because of the huge tax rates on the highest tax brackets. Look at these tax brackets from the 1950s:

    I think Reagan dispelled this theory by doubling tax revenues (from 500B to a trillion) by hugely lowering the highest marginal rate while in office. The economy did not double in his 8 years in office.

    I've worked with many millionaires. You end up paying tax on the first few million, after that you figure out different ways to be compensated; especially if cash is subject to excessive taxation.

    [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Perhaps. But rearranging the economy to better benefit the hyper-wealthy at the expense of the middle and lower classes isn't a victory imo. The increased revenues had to come from somewhere.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Perhaps. But rearranging the economy to better benefit the hyper-wealthy at the expense of the middle and lower classes isn't a victory imo. The increased revenues had to come from somewhere.

    I can agree with that, but I view usury and unsound money as the source of most of the problems. A lack of social justice is another - and I don't mean some intersectional bullshit. I mean corporations are let to run rampant over the little guys because they own the politicians. Those same corporations also control public opinion because they control the flow of information.

    We're living in a different flavor dystopian future than we were promised by science fiction writers.

    [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree completely. It all comes down to debt slavery (and wage slavery) which is driven by the central bank that loans to the government. In a debt-based monetary system such as ours, every dollar created has immediately more than a dollar of debt associated with it. So the debt, mathematically speaking, can never be repaid. This is the means by which the central banks of most every nation control the governments. And the Rothschilds started this very central banking system design in England and France in the 1820s, the system that was then copied to take over most governments in the world to this very day.

    All the rest of the personal debt and household debt and business debt and banking debt stems from this central bank debt. Then it can be used to grow or destroy nations at their whims, putting the governments in a hostage situation. That's why everything is so messed up. It all comes back to usury and unsound money like you said.

    [–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I would prefer encouraging private donations so one would not need to go through the bureaucratic nightmare taxes are for some people, but that requires a societal change before a political one, in my opinion.

    [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    America already has the highest private donation rate of any country in the world, per capita. I think we need something a little more structured because greedy people won't voluntarily give, and greedy people overwhelmingly make up the billionaire class.

    [–]HeyImSancho 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    No kidding, some distant relatives own some oil rights, they make more money letting the government pay them not to produce, than to produce; it pays for what I consider a lavish lifestyle.... Total load of shit; yet the pleabs don't stand up, and SCREAM NO!

    [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    But then you can buy up lots of assets like maybe 4 mansions or 3 yachts, maybe several priceless paintings, whilst you money speculate millions. Of course, you produce nothing for the economy, in fact yiu become a burden to the economy. But that's okay because trickle down economics works. It is proven to work, as can be seen by the ever increasing wealth inequality plaguing the U.S.

    The wall street Libertarians will tell you the freer the market the freer the people whilst they shun anyone promoting the progressive tax system, let alone the flat tax system. It's theft by government they tell you, whilst they slowly destroy economies, speculate the common person's money, and ask government to bail them out with taxpayer money when things go bad. The thief's are not JUST GOVERNMENT and the State, but the amalgamation of government, corporate, and financial institutions.

    [–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    The real clincher, and what I've been thinking about later, what exactly do they provide anymore with our taxes???? Think about that, I cannot find one thing that doesn't have conditions, and hoops that must be jumped through, in order to regain said money. God knows, if it has something to do with your body, then oh yeah, extra shit to make sure you get sicker over the years.

    All in all, what tax is really necessary, when really considering it? In my book, hardly a single one.

    [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    In antiquity taxes was paid to aid in a standing army. But in many cases if you pledged to serve the army under Rome if in the future enemies ever tried to conquer her, property was free and land was given as a human right.

    Rome in antiquity and taxes like New Rome here in the U.S was very burdensome at the end of her life. Especially for the Jews and the lower classes. The U.S. is heading to its destruction just as Rome did.

    [–]HeyImSancho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm not too sure any sort of collapse on par with Rome could happen. The Scythians were the ones who sacked Rome several times; usually due to Rome double crossing on agreements made.

    The Scythian's ran their area as free open republics, with free men inhabiting; all deadly, and all equal in respect for the most part.

    While on the other hand, Rome, then, and now, were, and are the fomenting force behind the authoritarian empire concept. For their authoritarianism to work, they must be able to classify all people's.

    When people can easily be classified, identified, and labeled, they're more in line with defenseless consumers always looking to the hand that feeds them for direction. Consumers are commodities, commodities are bought, and sold; in the end, subjects of Rome, were, and are(as we're still dealing with that authoritarian regime passed down) SLAVES.

    When the US falls, I know I'll stand a good chance at making it; even with my gimpy-ness; I've honed all necessary skills to forge ahead.

    I will grant you this though, most, my god, it'll be so sad the depths of disparity purposely created by the cabal.

    [–]zyxzevn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    One of the reasons: Corruption is legal in the US

    [–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Meanwhile, it looks like taxes have increased for the poor.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      Mind the pyramid of debate, please. https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/j1/the_saiditnet_terms_and_content_policy/

      Also I believe these are factual objective measurements about income rates, not "socialist bullshit"

      [–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Very true; there is little enough agenda in this post that one could potentially post this verbatim in a sub which hates taxes on rich people and it would be seen to promote that viewpoint, while if it was posted on a sub which wants higher taxes on rich people it would be seen to promote the this opposite viewpoint, all without changing the title or content at all.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        Disagree, everyone just wants what's best, many are misguided. Violence will only inflame things more. I think there are other ways. The rich are causing the propaganda that is dividing and conquering us