all 22 comments

[–]theoracle[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Ok after thinking about this and looking at notabug, the idea I want and it's name should be Optional Moderation. I edited the post to reflect it.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Delegated Moderation or Delegated Filtering might be other options for a concept name.

[–]teelo 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

/hijack

Speaking of magnora7, I noticed they're breaking their own rule against being a moderator of more than 40 subs.

Someone notify the internet police! The consequences will never be the same.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

I agree with a lot of this, but some of it would mean a huge rewrite of the way SaidIt works.

I think notabug.io has attempted to implement some similar ideas with its "spaces" that filter unmoderated "topics", but while usable it is still in fairly early development.

[–]theoracle[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Yes it seems to implement this idea in full would require significant work writing the code. My idea I posted is the grand idea, like Elon Musk's colonize mars etc. The thing is we can do little things to get there in the mean while.

So in that regard I had some ideas come up. The simplest change would be to add a copyleft or some opensource clause for user contributions in the user agreement on sign up. Maybe a lawyer needs to advise how best to do it but i think it would be something like "Where contributions made to this site are wholly your own you give them to this site under copyleft which is ...." which I guess you then list the terms of copyleft.

The other idea came on reading https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/53n9/theres_some_censorship_going_on_in_the_newly/ I really really want to see this avoided. I despise censorship but I respect people want to see only what they want to see, which is the gist of my idea.

So my simple solution to this problem. Get rid of banning and deleting. Yes get rid of it. But wait. In it's place have flagging. So you can either flag a post or a user for a sub which would result in all their posts in a sub being auto flagged. Then if something is flagged the default behavior is to collapse it. But there is more, there is an option for everyone to choose to either show, hide or completely disappear flagged items. Obviously with disappearing the effect to flagging someone or their post is the same as banning and deleting. I prefer the default behavior to collapse them, but if spam becomes an issue maybe hiding is better. I would think for spam deleting is probably best. Though I worry it would be abused for real posts so it should be logged or reviewed with maybe demodding consequences.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

Did you want to look at notabug.io? I think they've implemented some of what you're talking about here.

[–]theoracle[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I checked it out , Omg what is that place?????

Anon posting with completely anon and optional moderation. I like it but it's maybe taking it a bit extreme.

Hmm ok I like it enough it could be my new home.

[–]theoracle[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

The founder go1dfish is gone so development is dead. Spaces on Notabug is exactly what I want but it is not implemented in a way that is easy to use. The voting and open moderation is a bit whack there too. Ohwell I am impressed that someone is trying what I was thinking. Would be great if saidit could take the code and do it right.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

The notabug code is open source, anyone can take it up. Lemmy is also federated on an existing protocol, I haven't looked into it much though. It's possible go1dfish thought that was a better alternative and that's why he hasn't been around.

[–]theoracle[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

If I could code that would be good. I guess I can learn, but I am not sure I have the time. I gather I would also have to set up a new website? That is getting too much for me.

https://dev.lemmy.ml is not what I am thinking. The rules there are already too restrictive and there seems no option to turn them off.

I am envisaging a place where everyone can co exist. Moderators can only rule by acceptance, users choose who moderates for them.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

I haven't looked at lemmy much. Hmm. I wonder what happened to go1dfish.

I think the fediverse model has some potential too. You can moderate your own content pretty easily there by blocking or not blocking, I think.

Yeah, I guess it does take time to set stuff up if someone hasn't built it yet. I don't see any reason nab development can't continue, but someone has to actually do it. Maybe if we paid go1dfish, it would work, though I imagine he's got a job too that he's probably not eager to give up.

[–]theoracle[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Thanks for discussing this with me ccccccc. You have been very helpful!

I am not certain on the problems with running anon sites, but I would gather the deep/corpstate will come knocking making all sorts of requests at some point. Maybe just leaving it to the users at some point is the only easy way.

Federation covers my point on open sourcing the content, which is a must. It is not what I have in mind for the optional moderation part though. It makes it too complicated and wont stop moderators banning and deleting posts they shouldn't.

I am happy to put some money towards this. Go1dfish seems uncontactable though.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Glad I can pass on a bit of knowledge!

I think nab doesn't store private data by design, to help deal with "coming knocking".

The thing about the federated twitter-like model that I like is that, idk. I like other people having sovereignty too. It's like, with a forum like this, you all share (and potentially fight over) a shared sub. With the federated model, it's like each person gets to visit another's house whenever they want. Everyone has complete control over who they visit, and complete control over their own space. I kindof like this model. It's kindof a different way of organizing than the sub-based model though, and I'm here, so idk maybe I do like something about it. But that's why I mentioned the fediverse stuff, I feel it solves the problem of each person having complete control over what content they see. freespeechextremist.com does not remove/ban people (afaik, unless it's for legally required reasons), but a lot of the other servers do afaik. Anyway it's a bit different from what you were saying, but that's why I mention it as a somewhat related possibility. It also allows optional "moderation" of a sort via re-tweeting (or whatever the platform calls it): each person kinda makes their own filter of the overall content feed.

Yeah I have know idea about go1dfish really. He has some accounts listed at nab if you didn't see those. But it does seem like he's busy with something and not really available right now. I hope he is ok.

[–]theoracle[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The problem I am trying to solve is the ahole mod. The one who doesn't want his users engaging is some form of speech. I have watched countless hot topics get deleted and edited because the mod is well in my mind nuts.

The problem that federation causes is users have to jump to a different section, and they probably won't. But if you give them a button to press to disable the stupid mod and they can see people commenting on something that is hidden, and the conversation is engaging and they are interested? Well they hit that button. They then maybe start a post asking why the mod is such a retard? he bans more and more people, eventually the sub is out of his control because he has to ban so many people they just all disable him.

I want to organically neuter the retard mod.

My full idea is to abandon the sub model and just tag posts. You have mods or filters that aggregate certain tags. Notabug has this all I know but it's just not refined enough.

Hopefully go1dfish didn't get caught in the riots as notabug seems like an anarchist's creation. Notabug does seem like something Eric Weinstein would be involved in... and he is hardly a rioter :-)

BTW do you listen to The Portal?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

More thoughts: maybe moderation should be pull-based (pull content you want into the space), rather than filter-based (remove "bad" content). creates better incentives this way: people try to be worthy of getting something in, rather than getting mad if their stuff is removed or they're kicked out.

[–]theoracle[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well that is what is happening at ruqqus, any sub/guild can pull from general. I think it's a stupid system, but only because much better can be done.

I have discussed this on ruqqus https://ruqqus.com/post/tiz/optional-moderation and a user 1010011010 had some excellent ideas for a tagging system. The basic premise is anyone can tag a post or comment, the tags themselves could describe moderation actions, or categorization etc, I would guess you could take it further that edits and the comments are tags as well. Users can then filter based on tag or who did the tag etc. So anyone is free to moderate by tagging posts or I guess users too. If you are good at moderating or say do it a lot I might use you to filter things. Everything would be public so anyone could audit.

I was going to copy paste the comments from 1010011010 but alas ruqqus is down as usual. I will make a post when it is up.