all 22 comments

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ugh, I miss r/TrueLesbians. This is bottom of the barrel sort of stuff... Those were the days when you had dozens of new posts to scroll through daily :/

[–]Golly 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Girl that post is ollllld news. Besides, the idea was pretty much dismissed

[–]Wot 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

Golly is right. My idea was pretty much dismissed as much as the idea lesbians are real is.

what they really want is not the label itself but to control and oppress women who are in no way looking to center men in their lives. Do you really think that changing out some label and choosing a new one will change anything with these people?

Yeah. I mean, think about it logistically. Lesbians are very, verrrrryyyyy small in number. It seems like a ton if not most, claiming to be lesbians are actually just bi/het women and even with their numbers that doesn't grow our numbers beyond a speck. So, that means we need all the allies we can get to actively understand what female homosexuality is and make the barest of efforts to help us out. We need this because as you said, they want to oppress and control and as I said before, to seemingly everyone else we aren't real at all and that's made worse by the co-opting bi and het women.

I don't know if you noticed but the women here have said they don't believe women who tell them they are lesbians are actually the real deal. We have no community and with no community willing to be a voice we pretty much don't exist and that leaves us vulnerable to being further destroyed. I think the easiest way to elicit that help would be to make a grand gesture that would simultaneously shame and outcast co-opters while cementing our legitimacy and beconing a need and development of a community. I think that's the way to go because even women, who are half this planets population, is losing our language to identify and speak about ourselves. If it can, and is, happening to the greatest group we belong to and begin effecting law I just don't see how it won't become even worse for lesbianism which now, right now, is just hetero/bisexuality to everyone else without any push back. And it meant this before the transcult and there's no reason it won't be understood to be this to the greater majority if the transcult is culled. As I said before yes, co-opters gonna co-opt but never before has there been any risk to them to do so that additionally would reflect bad on them and wouldn't reflect badly on us in the long run and there definitely hasn't existed any spectacle that would spread that to the masses and make them critical for us. I've been hearing a bit about the different waves of feminism and it appears homosexual women have always been a strong, if not the leading force for it. It seems like if we won't fight for ourselves, no one will. Take that as you will.

In addition, I think making this move would help those in countries where lesbians are correctively raped, lobotomized or seen as deviants because it would demonize perpetuators further. Like it or not the west is compounding the idea lesbianism isn't real and many countries take cue from the west on how they develop socially. I think at this point it's more important to solidify the legimacy of our sexuality moreso than caring about what it's called and this would be the easiest way to do so and that spot light could help younger people to understand what they are better and faster given how fickle and hetero everyone's understanding of lesbianism is right now and help them navigate a climate where they are being cocered to transition without access to a community that would protect them.

On top of not believing women when they report themselves as lesbians, many lesbians here have already said they've taken to calling themselves homosexual and I've seen the TRAs take issue with this too. They, the bisexuals, the hets and men already have the label. It's already gone. Perhaps, if we were to do this it'd annoy everyone else that there is another term on the market and force them to pay attention to this war on the language of our sex and sexuality. Regardless, we have everything to lose and we are losing it. It was only an idea. The fact that that was enough to call my sexuality into question but not everyone else's mentality of just hoping this will blow over is absurd to me. Unlike any other sexuality we have the most enemies within and with out(?) while being seen as the enemy, making this not just an issue with mentally ill or fetishizing men online. And unlike the war on women's sex based language in general I think you'll be surprised to find out that even if women take this language back they, for the most part, don't give a fuck about lesbians and most importantly also don't think we're real. So many do not even want lesbian daughters, I've even heard lesbians say this themselves (out of protection knowing how homophobic shit is). The denialism and erasure feeds itself.

To me it seems obvious that we need to draw a hard, loud line in the sand especially while gender critical/radfem women are pretending to care about us to bolster their ammo against the TRAs and what better way to get them riled than to appear we're cow-towing to the TRAs. Personally, I think this is a good move for women to do in general. If TRAs want the term woman so bad (which is etymologically wife-man) then I say let's give it to them and call ourselves something better while making it clear it's only for actual women. I think doing so would put a stop to all this non-sense in a weekend. Regardless I'd love to hear other ideas about what can be done.

[–]strictly 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

I agree with you. I don't really care what my sexual orientation is called, I care about what it refers to, and if the label refers to male-attracted people too then the lesbian label has failed its mission. As non-lesbians identifying as lesbians outnumber lesbians I am unsure if it’s possible for lesbians to take the label back.

Therefore I wouldn’t be against a new term for exclusively female-attracted females. I think the risk of a new term being appropriated is lower as the new term would be regarded as “transphobic” by the trans community so I suspect male-attracted people and transbians wouldn’t want to be associated with it. I think it would be easier to organize under a new term as we wouldn’t have to spend time debating who the term refers to and can focus on how homosexuality is real sexual orientation. Then if we would be able to get people to recognize there is nothing wrong with being homosexual hopefully people would recognize female homosexuality is a separate sexual orientation which deserves it’s own term separate from male-attracted people.

Regarding woman, I don't really care if people would call me a uterus-haver either, in fact I would prefer being called a uterus-haver than a woman if the person refer to males as women too, as that means they think I belong in a “gender identity category” with males who want to be women. I find being put in a false gender identity category more displeasing being referred by anatomical parts.

That said, every person should make up their own mind so I am not against lesbians who want to stick with the lesbian label etc.

[–]ColoredTwice 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

On Twitter and Reddit and maybe elsewhere - transwomen and just "queer" men are calling themselves "homosexual females" already, because "my legal documents showing 'F', so I am female".

They are taking any words we are using for ourselves. So there no way to call ourselves anymore. And if follow your logic we will be just changing word after word after word to describe ourselves, until language will run out of words. Same with our rights and spaces - they are demanding more and more every few months and some goverments are listening to them - so we will end up rightless if not stand up against. Running away and getting hits in back is not a way to protect ourselves from persistent attacker, not a way to win a fight.

[–]Wot 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

So, apparently a 16 yo old straight boy decided to come up the term "superstraight" to emphasize the fact he's only attracted to actual women in a video he made on tiktok. TRAs sent his mom death threats so he took down the video but during this time, superstraight, superlesbian, superbi and supergay have been trending as far as I know on twitter with heavy support.

I think this is within the same vein of my idea and does the same job but executed better because the obvious added kicker is every other sexuality is on board with making this a thing because they have their corresponding sexualities to defend from TRAs. I think we should use superlesbian because like I said we have more to worry about than just the TRAs. We have the appropriating bi and het women who come up with every reason under the sun to call themselves lesbians even though they are attracted to, fantasize and fuck men for whatever reason of the week they have. I don't think we'll have to run anymore if we cooperate with everyone else and really embrace this new label.

[–]ColoredTwice 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

LGBA need to rename to SuperLGB Alliance.

[–]Wot 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

SuperLGB Alliance or this?

[–]strictly 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

On Twitter and Reddit and maybe elsewhere - transwomen and just "queer" men are calling themselves "homosexual females" already, because "my legal documents showing 'F', so I am female".

I know, as they see it as validating. I think if a new term would be created it should be a term that trans people find invalidating or transphobic so they wouldn't want to appropriate it and instead spend their time hating it.

[–]ColoredTwice 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transwomen-exclusionary Female-born lesbians.

[–]Wot 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The supersexualities like superlesbian is doing just that but SailorMoon2020 brings up a good point about letting the lesbian label go all together. I had no idea it was a point of contention for the people of lesbos and would surrender it out of respect even if I think this super solidarity thing is a truly golden opportunity.

[–]SailorMoon2020 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

I in fact call myself homosexual because the word 'lesbian' is a stolen word. Something I've said numerous times. But nobody wants to address that because to do so would be to admit theres racism, prejudice, and superior ideologies within the lesbian community.

[–]Jillyjanejan 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I remember you said that and I reminded you that it was not lesbians who stole the word, it was male 19th century sexologists who did. They chose the word, and popularized it in the English language as a word to characterize same-sex relations between women. My original response was deleted but it's still in my post history:

If you know that lesbians didn't steal the word why did you say all that stuff about lesbians being similar to white supremacist and religious fundamentalists and having a superiority complex? That's a false comparison. Most people (both lesbians and non lesbians) have no knowledge of the origin of the word so they are not "stealing" it maliciously or knowingly. It was popularized in the English language as a label for same-sex relations between women, so of course English-speaking people are going to use it accordingly. If you want to protest about lesbians using a stolen word, make sure you also include the rest of the English-speaking world. We don't have much choice over these things. Even if every single lesbian stopped using the stolen word which was forced upon us by some men years ago, it won't stop the majority of people from calling us that. Personally, I think trying that trying to find another label or trying to fight for the lesbian label are both futile pursuits. Whatever the majority wants is what wins and we are a minority.

Anyway, I'm only responding again because you always seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about everything to do with race.

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

As I said then and I'll say now just because homosexual women didn't steal the word, it doesn't give us the right to claim it as ours. But again, no one wants to talk about that.

I also disagree with people not being able to stopped saying lesbians if we choose to not use it.

Numerous racial and ethic groups constantly change what they want to be called throughout the decades and generation, and the public abides. Even trans people got people to change the way they're addressed and have succeeded. In fact, almost everyone in the queer community but homosexual women are demanding how people interact with them, what people call them, and are winning.

The above you gave is no excuse and just makes it seem as if we're weak.

[–]Jillyjanejan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Ok. So how come the Lesbians/Lesbosians haven't been able to claim Lesbian back if it's so easy to just choose what people are called? They must be weak. Oh well. That's their fault for being weak and not fighting hard enough then, right?

Also, thanks to straight people (the majority), homosexual women and men are called queer by the public now whether we like it or not (and research shows that most of us don't). We (the minority) don't have as much say in these matters as you think.

[–]ColoredTwice 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Word "queer" is still used as a slur where I live against gay men, so when people want to troll or attack LGB person they can say "LGBTQueer community" and it can be already insulting.

It is mostly heterosexual men who are deciding how everyone is called in LGBT+, not LGB themselves.

[–]Jillyjanejan 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It is mostly heterosexual men who are deciding how everyone is called in LGBT+

we can't give them all the credit. Heterosexual women also love to call lesbians and gays "queer". They love calling themselves queer too. So many straight women calling themselves queer that I just translate it automatically to "straight" in my mind now.

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

able to claim Lesbian back if it's so easy to just choose what people are called? They must be weak. Oh well. That's their fault for being weak and not fighting hard enough then, right?

If that's how you feel towards them then I can't control that. However, America is a powerful country and what we do, many developing countries follow. The island of Lesbos is small and their voices aren't as loud as a result. They desire to have that word and there are organizations trying for it.

I understand their plight and once I came upon their movement, I agreed with it. Considering how "woke" the queer community has become and how hostile they come toward that one word, 'lesbian' as a result of the history behind it, I think there's a chance.

[–]Jillyjanejan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think you understood my point. I was trying to show you that minorities (such as people from Lesbos and homosexual women) don't have much influence in these matters, it's has nothing to do with being weak. If you want to rally the woke crowd and get them to help give Lesbian back to the people from Lesbos, go for it. That's more productive than whining.

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I did not understand that point, that is correct.

The type of crowd does not matter. I'm already apart of a few Mediterranean and Nordic LGBT organizations that tackle this subject. So yes, hopefully we are being productive. Time will tell!

[–]strictly 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just because you’re not ‘attached’ to the lesbian label it doesn’t mean it’s ONLY yours to ‘let go’

I think it was me who said I wasn't attached to the lesbian label and I stand by it. About "not only yours to let go part", I didn't suggest that people should be forced to let it go, just that I'm not personally attached to it and wouldn't mind if a new term was created.

[–]Gacho666 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lesbian is a sexual orientation, not a label to the only ones I have heard them say that is to the TQ + that's why they think they can use it at will