12-Year Reddit veteran, sadly acknowledging the site won't return to the way it was 7+ years ago

submitted by neovulcan from (self.Introductions)

Honestly I've mostly lurked over my 12 years, but I kept coming back hoping to find those refreshing insights that were so common in Reddit's early days, but now you really have to dig. Couple that with an ever-increasing regurgitation of leftist talking points and a suppression of conservative views...

This most recent ban wave is what troubles me the most. I'd ghosted The_Donald quite a lot, and can't remember any instances that fit the stated ban criteria. I'm not even "Pro-Trump" (actually voted Johnson twice, and probably voting Jo in 2020), just fascinated by the energy and direction of that sub. If the sub were merely locked, we could have a discussion on the validity of the ban, but now it boils down to hearsay, which is near the bottom of the argument pyramid. Reddit used to be a place where a minority voice wouldn't be silenced. You might be downvoted to oblivion, but you could at least say your piece. I have some sympathy, as Reddit needs to protect their brand name, and "free speech" was more of an assumption on my part than a fundamental tenant of their platform. As Randall put it...

I hope this site doesn't end up in 10 years like Reddit is today, so maybe I need to step up more. It won't do any good to copy everything from Reddit over, but perhaps crossposting the more insightful and/or better communities would help. Certainly couldn't be solved with a bot, as the karma counts on Reddit are mostly garbage.

Anyway, if you're like me and looking for a community like Reddit used to be, I look forward to meeting you.

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[–]Dr_Bukkake 56 insightful - 11 fun56 insightful - 10 fun57 insightful - 11 fun -  (76 children)

If this site takes off then there is absolutely no way it won’t eventually end up exactly how Reddit is. This site will have a golden age where everyone can speak their mind without fear of being silenced or banned. Then slowly all the SJWs, trannys, self hating whites, and other undesirables that make up most of Reddit will get tired of jerking each other off over how progressive they are will slowly leave their little safe space and start to make their way over to this site. They will then not use this site to pursue subs that interest them but they will specifically go to subs that anger them because it helps take their focus on how miserable their real lives are. Reddit will die and Saidit will take over bringing in the big advertising dollars which will force admins to start banning wrong think to appease the vocal minority of mutants and not lose advertisers dollars which will eventually lead to a migration to another site to repeat the cycle.

[–][deleted] 34 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

This site is operating off of donations. So, what is more likely to happen is that the domain will be stolen by the DNS host and then CloudFlare will kick them off. Of course, this will happen after the payment processors and/or bank accounts are turned off. That's the most recent approach globohomo has taken to deplatforming sites that allow opinions that are not in alignment with the mainstream orthodoxy.

[–]cloudrabbit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

This site is operating off of donations. So, what is more likely to happen is that the domain will be stolen by the DNS host and then CloudFlare will kick them off. Of course, this will happen after the payment processors and/or bank accounts are turned off.

Damn could you elaborate? How is that legally possible?

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

How is that legally possible?

Private unregulated companies doing whatever they want.

Damn could you elaborate?

For 8chan: Brenton Tarrant live-streamed his attack of the mosque in New Zealand to Facebook. He posted links to this livestream on Twitter, Facebook (obviously), and 8chan. I was gonna link you to news stories but I see they have been mostly memory holed.

For Dailystormer: they suffered the same fate after launching a defense of James Fields in the wake of the Unite the Right rally. He is currently serving 110 years for a hit and run on an overweight Antifa activist that was among those attacking his car when he sped off. She was clipped in the process and had a heart attack.

Stormfront also was deplatformed at the same time and for the same reasons, but got it back due to having been a fed honeypot for over a decade.

[–]BobQuixote 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What does Brenton Tarrant have to do with your point?

[–]teelo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The NZ government ordered all their ISPs to block connections to 4chan and 4channel, even days after 4chan had already removed all the videos of it, and even though it was never even shared on 4channel. It took a month before I could browse 4chan again without using a foreign DNS.

[–]SaidOverRed 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The truth is, that they wanted to squash our right to see that the shooter specifically said he was doing it to bring about a gun ban. But you can't let people know that they are giving him exactly what he wants. So they suppress it and move to let no catastrophe go to waste, as it were.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

He posted a link to his Facebook livestream on 8chan /pol/, it was removed fairly quickly by moderators but that was the justification used to deplatform them.

[–]basedaf 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

IIRC 8ch tweeted it took about a day to remove the original post, and they also allowed links after the fact (in accordance with US law) to the shooting spree and manifesto. They were fairly alone in doing so as well. That also didn't kill 8ch, there were two copycat shooters back to back, and cloudfare eventually released a statement that while 8chan says its not lawless, they've created an environment where lawlessness flows freely. Ultimately as far as deplatforming goes, I really don't blame cloudfare for their decision. That was a heavy burden on their shoulders, and hardly 8chans first infraction on 100% illegal speech. People died, I would of have done the same in their position.

[–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

it was livestreamed on... facebook

[–]Canbot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It is legal because it is not explicitly illegal. It is not speculative either, there are examples of both payment processors like Visa, Mastercard and paypal cancelling "problematic" websites and organizations; as well as DNS hosts blocking websites and hosting services deleting them.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I believe Gab is the latest example.

[–]basedaf 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

cloudfare has kicked off 2 sites to date, and both sites still have ddos protection through other companies. DNS hijacking can be solved by just having a twitter account to link to the new dns. If 8ch, wikileaks, thepiratebay, and all the rest survive non stop dns hijacking, so can saidit.

[–]magnora7 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

If that does happen, we made the saidit open source code super easy for someone to launch a new saidit website.

[–]Dr_Bukkake 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That works.

[–]teelo 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Time to bounce ideas for the name of the "Saidit became too corrupt so this is our new site" site.

Moderatedit?

[–]cloudrabbit 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lol this comment is just perfect description of their behaviour.

[–]holy_goat 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (43 children)

Your post makes it seem like you just resent minorities more than you actually care about everyone being able to share their opinions. There are plenty of transgendered people and liberal whites who do not like idpol, and there are plenty of as you might put it in your extremely biased terminology, "upstanding people" who are swept up in all the idpol leftist propaganda. I want everyone to be able to say their piece, including the trannies.

[–]Dr_Bukkake 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

I welcome anyone to say whatever they feel like, that’s not the issue. The people I am talking about are the ones that will most likely try to censor what you are saying like they do on Reddit.

[–]teelo 6 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 7 fun -  (34 children)

They've already done it here. The radfems remade their groups here and went straight to work censoring wrongthink the way they did on Reddit.

[–]GenderCriticalOnly 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

Think of GenderCritical as more like a fansub for people super into the Lord of the Rings. You have maybe a dozen people in your group who have read all the books 20 times, and all the surrounding materials, and they want to be able to discuss that. But they are vastly outnumbered by the people who keep coming into their sub and talking about how much LotR sucks, or asking them what a Hobbit is, or saying they watched one of the films and isn’t Legolas super hot, or trying to start arguments about whether there are three books because they read it as a child and they’re sure it was just one book.

And if they left all those comments up, new people arriving in the sub would think that was what the sub was set up for, and that that is the sort of content that was welcomed. New people who actually had read the books 20 times and wanted to discuss them in depth from that perspective wouldn’t see that it was a place for them, and wouldn’t be able to see the people they could have that conversation with.

In order for them to build a community where they actually get to have the conversations they want, wouldn’t it be reasonable to say “In this sub we are not having arguments about LotR sucking, and we are not having basic arguments about the existence of the books, and we are not for really basic engagement by people who haven’t read the books. There are other subs for those conversations, and we will even set up a sub to have those conversations with you, but this space isn’t for that.”?

[–]teelo 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

Think of SaidIt being a free speech site. You came here because you were censored on your original site. You complained about being censored. And now that you're here, you've gone straight to work censoring others. Do you see the irony?

[–]GenderCriticalOnly 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Sure, but I think there’s a difference between “here is a site where we can all freely post, and in this one tiny part of it various repetitive comments will be removed (and the sidebar says this)” and “nobody can talk about this anywhere without being, at best, removed”.

Imagine people hated LotR so much, that they organised on Discord to disrupt and shut down any site that discussed LotR positively. Imagine knowing that people are openly talking about having followed the little group of people who want to talk about the books, that they are discussing what they post on Saidit now, and that they want to continue disrupting any attempt at conversation. If the GC subs were not proactive about removing that disruption, they always got derailed by organised groups who are open about using multiple accounts each to disrupt the subs and prevent normal conversation from taking place.

I am all for transparency in modding, and transparency about the rules, and people having the right to discuss things. I think as long as there is transparency (and I agree, the lack of transparency was an issue), it’s reasonable to have some spaces that are only about discussing something from a particular perspective, and to disallow the sort of basic questions and arguments that we hear all day every day, as long as that doesn’t impact the availability of other spaces to have those conversations: if you don’t do things like that, all spaces become the same having the same conversations dominated by the same loud people, and if nothing else that is incredibly boring. Nobody was saying anywhere else on Saidit shouldn’t allow those conversations, and places are easily available to have them.

[–]teelo 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

Your wall of text does not disprove the simple fact of irony: if you're going to engage in censorship, then don't come here complaining about censorship.

[–]GenderCriticalOnly 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you’re not here to discuss, then that’s fine.

[–]teelo 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I am here to discuss. You're the one who has failed to refute my point.

If you want to continue to fail to refute my point, then thats fine. Just admit that you believe the rules apply to others but not yourself. Just admit that you believe that others should be censored while you should not.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, censorship in general is not the problem. GC (maybe similar to a Christian group) doesn't claim to be a general platform like reddit does. It's censoring things that do not violate GC's stated rules that I disagree with.

[–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

GC is full of gross hateful cunts. Nothing changes, no matter where they are. They cannot deal with debate at all, and banned everyone who didn't suck their clits in worshipful cuckdom when they were on reddit. Of course they'll do the same here. Being able to follow saidit rules is far far beyond their abilities.

[–]lemmiz 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

you complain about "gross cunts" not being able to follow rules, yet you're so incapable of following rules yourself that you end up on the second lowest section of the pyramid of debate

https://saidit.net/wiki/index#wiki_rules

https://infogalactic.com/w/images/thumb/e/ef/The_Pyramid_Of_Debate_v3_Detailed_TT_Norms_Medium_Text_Outline_Grey_BG.png/1024px-The_Pyramid_Of_Debate_v3_Detailed_TT_Norms_Medium_Text_Outline_Grey_BG.png

smh such projection

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Mate, I generally combine elements from the very bottom as well as the top of the pyramid. Mix it up a little to keep things legit.

Sure, I occasionally just call people cunts, but at the same time I also post thoughtful and considered reflections. depends on the value I place upon the person I'm talking to and whether I consider them to be respectful enough to meet me on the level for rational and constructive debate, or whether they are just fuck wits who say 'no u' and then wave their internet dicks about

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There used to be a debate sub, /r/GCdebatesQT, but that one is private now.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

My complaint about GC is GC's complaint about reddit: stuff that followed the rules was silently removed anyway.

/s/Gender_Critical/comments/550p/what_were_your_opinions_on_radfeminism_that_got/

And aside from silently removing rule-following content and hiding that from participants, GC is more like a Christian sub. GC's canon and ideas as they are derived from radical feminist thinkers are more loosely defined than the Christian bible, but it's for a group with specific dogmatic beliefs, not a group that wants to discuss a particular topic in depth. It's more like "Eowyn is best forum" than "serious Tolkien discussion only please." If it were not dogmatic it would have been named "gender criticism" or "gender discussion" or "international women's protection league" or something. There is a LOT of room for discussion of what's going on with gender roles, and with transgender activism and it's effects on women, but GC does not allow a lot of that discussion.

And aside from that, GC very much emphatically is a place for "newbies" to post. There's a whole thread entirely dedicated to people who have "hit peak trans" (perhaps the equivalent of "discovered how great Tolkein is for the first time"). Newbies posted all the time -- "I don't agree with everything but I'm having this issue" "Looking for advice on this topic even though I haven't learned everything about radfem yet" "Only been here a few weeks but I have to say they're wrong about what they say about you," etc. Many women seem to think "gender criticism" refers to the current transgender stuff with a bunch of different gender options, not gender as a whole. It's not uncommon to see that sentiment.

I wish GC would be more honest about what it is.

[–]GConly 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

GC's canon and ideas as they are derived from radical feminist thinkers

Anything that didn't follow radfem canon was excised ASAP on Reddit.

Any dissent with the (minimal and shoddy) science they posted was crushed.

Sorry GC, but the overwhelming majority of scientists researching the human brain will tell you sex differences do exist, they do matter, and they aren't from socialisation. You can see them in neonates.

Just because you've found about four authors who say otherwise and you post them repeatedly in a cycle does not make them correct.

We've known how how induce male aggression, play patterns and sexual behaviour in females via extra androgens in the fetal stage since the fifties. You look ridiculous insisting that all the differences are down to socialisation. Fine and Joel are laughing stocks and their work is widely criticized. For a start multiple people have pointed out Joel's work demonstrates male and female brain can reliably be identified even with the limited criteria she used. Fine just omits huge chunks of data about testosterone and prenatal exposure because it disproves her.

Don't worry we ladies, the latest research debunks the wrong brain sex BS pretty thoroughly, but it does so while accepting brain sex differences exist, and proving homosexuality is hard wired into the brain at the same time.

It means that radfems don't get taken seriously when professionals get involved, which is a terrible thing because it's the paediatricians and scientists pulling this apart the who will eventually sort all this out. If GC keeps contradicting them and undermining them, it's just going to prolong a bad situation.

We need to move on from GC being a radical feminist sub, and make it over into an activist base for women's rights with a coherent policy that's based in good science. Not junk science.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

an activist base for women's rights with a coherent policy

I might be able to get behind something like this. maybe it should be a new space though and women from GC can join if they want. & GC's contributions to womens rights should be credited if things do go in a different direction.

I wonder now though, if this is really inconsistent with GC. And brain differences can also be due to non-genetic factors and epigenetic factors and all that. "man" and "woman" are not static things, we're always in the process of evolving. GC doesn't claim all men and all women are the same, but says these differences are due to individual personality.

They do seem to be pretty against any biological origin origin of behavioral differences though, which does seem probably not right to me, and I wish we could talk about it.

A bit off-topic, but what does the latest research say about homosexuality/sexuality?

We've known how how induce male aggression, play patterns and sexual behaviour in females via extra androgens in the fetal stage since the fifties.

did people actually... do this?? this is a bit disturbing.

It means that radfems don't get taken seriously when professionals get involved, which is a terrible thing because it's the paediatricians and scientists pulling this apart the who will eventually sort all this out. If GC keeps contradicting them and undermining them, it's just going to prolong a bad situation.

How do you think this interaction could work better?

[–]GConly 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

did people actually... do this?? this is a bit disturbing.

Did it with quite a few mammal species including primates. Started in 1953.

And brain differences can also be due to non-genetic factors and epigenetic factors and all that. "man" and "woman" are not static things

Well, you can see the brain of male and female fetuses are different upon autopsy from preterm stillbirths. That paper was quite a grim read.

You can also find that puberty levels big hormones make alterations to the brain. Which debunked the old Swaab paper that started this wrong brain sex area BS back in 94. Long story but will explain if asked.

How do you think this interaction could work better?

They've really got to drop the 'all differences are all socialisation /no brain sex' stuff. It makes me cringe every time I see it.

I know why they stick to it. If it's socialised into them you can fix it, if it's innate you give them an excuse to shrug their shoulders and claim it's natural and therefore okay/forgivable. There's also the issue that accepting innate differences exist means people accepting unequal representation in positions of power is inevitable.

From my POV, you have to know what actually causes a problem before you have a hope of fixing it, or at least coming up with effective coping strategies.

The data coming out lately is showing straight TIMs have normally masculinised brains. And that's the ones who had a childhood GD diagnosis. It's also showing sexual arousal when cross dressing is definitely an issue with a lot if them.

Personally I think we need to focus on a workable strategy based on what the public believe after being fed TRA bullshit for years.

From a lot of arguing with the average Jane libfem, they believe that all TIMs have gender dysphoria as kids, they are mostly gay, and they have wrong sex brains. They also believe most have had SRS, are in hormones, and have female violent and sex offending behaviour. They think TIMs are dying by the thousands from hate crimes, and gd kids are committing suicide all over if they aren't instantly transitioned.

They also believe all kids turning up with GD are permanently trans, don't know about the high desistance rates, and genuinely think puberty blockers are safe with no long term negative effects.

I think strategically we need to stick to presenting people with the facts in a consistent non hostile manner, carefully documenting how the TRAs are actively lying or being disingenuous.

A bit off-topic, but what does the latest research say about homosexuality/sexuality?

Varies. With females it seems to be down to getting excess testosterone. For example,, my female family members have a condition that means we produce excess t, a lot of the girls are gay or bi.

In men, they seem to be getting normal male T levels, but epigenetic changes that lower the response to it in the brain are the issue. They also seem to have an overall lower response to t because the average gay man has subtle differences to his face, and they average out at a cm or two shorter.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing this, it's all pretty interesting.

I think strategically we need to stick to presenting people with the facts in a consistent non hostile manner, carefully documenting how the TRAs are actively lying or being disingenuous.

This seems pretty doable. And it will probably help.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Saved. BTW, if you don't already have something like this, use a reference database such as Zotero. It makes it much easier to manage research, bibliography and dump those references into a text box. If you just didn't have the time here, that's fine, too. Your post was already long and informative enough, I was just wondering if you were in a similar place as I was and grew tired of pulling up the same studies over and over again. They also have a browser extension, called Zotero Connector or something similar, through which you can automatically create bibliographical references from a web page, a Wikipedia article, a Google Scholar reference, an arxiv page, a researchgate page, etc. I have come to love it and I have every study at my fingertips I could ever wish for when arguing now. It also was a huge help with my dissertation.

[–]lestratege 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And brain differences can also be due to non-genetic factors and epigenetic factors and all that.

Except there ARE differences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXUS0MRcFWM

Click Cc for English subs.

load more comments (7 replies)

    [–]GenderCriticalOnly 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I don’t disagree with much of this: I think there was a failure of transparency, and I think transparency is important.

    When GC started as a subreddit, it was much more about in-depth discussion by women who had deep backgrounds in feminist theory. And it was supposed to supplement the existing feminist subs, because nobody expected them to turn so hostile to criticism of gender or of porn and prostitution. As it grew, a lot of people came drifting in for other reasons, because it was the only place openly discussing any of this. Some of the strict modding was an attempt to stop these newbies from diluting the original ethos, but it could only do so much. Waves would come in, and many would start to bed in or be sent elsewhere, but towards the end the influx of newbies was very high and not slowing down. The Peak Trans thread served to compile experiences, but it also served to keep those comments contained rather than making the entire sub about them because people always wanted to make a post about it early on.

    There were a lot of discussions among older users about the impact this was having, and if there were ways to counteract it and restore the sub as a place to actually discuss things in depth. That’s where the creation of subs like radicalfeminists and radfemtheory (also banned) came in, and trollgc to try to move that sillier content out of gc, and actualwomen to try to move conversations not about feminism, and GCdebatesQT and ask_radical_feminists and gendercriticalguys and so on.

    They may have been losing that fight, but it was absolutely what they were trying to do. In the most recent wave, for an obvious example, a lot of memeposts were getting through on GC (rather than trollGC), because the level was so high of newbies posting who didn’t know how it was supposed to work but had been told this was the place for terfs who agreed with Rowling: I hadn’t seen memes getting through in years, so this gives an idea of the battle the mods were facing.

    It’s been Eternal September. The influx of young teenagers to Reddit during lockdown hasn’t helped, either.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    That's really interesting about the history, I didn't know that's how all the GC sister subs came to be, and the peak trans thread, though that makes sense now that you explain it.

    I had heard that when GC started it was more about actual gender criticism, and was not primarily focused on trans issues. Is that right? How did that change happen? (if you want to answer)

    [–]GenderCriticalOnly 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    more about actual gender criticism, and was not primarily focused on trans issues

    I don’t think you can really separate those two things anymore, sadly, which is why the subreddit had to be created. What had been perfectly normal feminist discussion criticising gender had become cast as transphobic and unacceptable in the existing feminist spaces, even when it wasn’t about trans issues, and discussions of trans issues kept ending up at sexist statements that you couldn’t criticise without being called a bigot.

    Here is the sub in October 2013 already showing a mixture of the two, and being brigaded. You can see it in September, too. It’s very much a place for women (and see the emphasis in the sidebar on lesbians) to go and talk about what’s been going wrong in their existing spaces, so I suppose you could call that being about trans issues.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Bindel was getting death threats over transgender stuff back in 2013? wow. It looks like this war between, well, gender critical / radfem feminism and liberal feminism has been going on for a while now. It says "community for 9 days..." so it was made back around 2013? So it was made directly as a response to this transgender stuff. It did not start out as a community discussing how to liberate women from sex-based expectations as I had thought. I guess there was a lot of that going on in any feminist context. And this is just the continued manifestation of the split or attempted takeover or whatever you want to call it between people who think feminism should include transgender males and people who think it's about female people. Which put opposing feminists in the crosshairs just as much as any organization that goes against lgbt, with the same standards of "disagreement is tantamount to violence", used as an excuse to enact violence.

    Was the sub made by feminists on reddit who were getting pushed out of other feminist spaces on reddit?

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Great.

    [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    jesus wept. go back. You don't belong here and you never will. Your mind is a fucking cesspool of leftist shit and not fit for adult spaces

    [–]lemmiz 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    no u

    https://saidit.net/s/whatever/comments/553r/ive_revived_rbanbigmouth_here_on_saidit_its/jhdl

    this is not how adults talk, this is some 12 year old nazi larper shit

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    The kike that i told to fuck off joined the site, and within a day was calling all 'goyim' sexual perverts. It was a fully deserved 'fuck off'.

    no u

    and you want to lecture me on how adults talk? You pathetic twat.

    You are hardly better. here for 4 days and using 'nazi' as if its an insult that has any meaning, then stalking me as if you are some arbiter on how saidit works.

    You throw 'nazi' about a lot. Do you actually know anything about the tenets of national socialism, the meaning of 'blood and soil', the nature of family and tribe and country, how work sets you free? Or is it just a mindless 'wascist bad guys in jackboots' throwaway for anyone who doesn't agree with your leftists garbage?

    In fact. Let's call it. You are a kike. It okay. There's treatment, just accept your fucking messiah, Jesus Christ, who came as prophesied to save you from your synagogue of Satan.

    [–]lemmiz 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    holy_goat is right, "There are plenty of transgendered people and liberal whites who do not like idpol" and you're telling him he doesn't belong here? it sounds like you just want a right wing safespace. as long as a leftist is following the rules it shouldn't matter that they're here.

    by 12 yr old nazi larper I wasn't really commenting on national socialism, I meant that you sound like a cringy 12 yr old who just found /pol/ for the first time and has discovered he can call people slurs without being banned, so he's gonna spam them everywhere. it's like seeing an sjw who screams "shitlord" at everyone. though I'll give you that it's understandable to be angry at that guy if he started it by being racist against you, but I personally wouldn't scream racist slurs back.

    I didn't "stalk" you, I read through this thread and whenever I saw an incredibly dumb comment here it was by coincidence yours, not my fault you can't keep yourself from saying stupid shit. notice how I didn't "stalk" you by replying to you in other threads? cause I wasn't doing that. when you told holy_goat to leave cause he supposedly wasn't adult enough, I clicked on your profile to see what you define adult discussion as, and first thing I see is "FUCK OFF KIKE". ok if that's the only speech that's allowed have fun turning this place into voat 2.

    just accept your fucking messiah, Jesus Christ, who came as prophesied to save you from your synagogue of Satan.

    if I had to be religious, asatru is closer to my ancestors faith

    [–]72ndGender 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    You've described the internet since it's inception. I've enjoyed many golden ages of different sites over the years, but they all crumble under SJW pressure. But it's not a terrible thing, since it keeps things fresh. Just have to time it right and enjoy the good times on a site while they last.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    But that’s just it, we shouldn’t have to. It’s sucks to have a good community built up where you can have discussions with other like minded individuals only to have it torn down by assholes who just want to be angry.

    [–]72ndGender 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Oh, you're preaching to the choir here. I definitely don't want the platforms i enjoy to get torn down, but I've come to peace with that being reality, and I make an effort to keep my eye out for a few replacements at all times. Saidit, Voat, and Poal all got added to my radar a couple years ago when Reddit started cracking down on the subs I enjoyed. Transitioning over was easy.

    Now that I say this, I realize how similar this is to white flight. As soon as an area I live in starts going to shit, I pick a few new areas I'm prepared to move to. Even start spending a little time there ahead of time.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    This is exactly like white flight.

    [–]SaidOverRed 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Don't forget: blacks who are free of the plantation leave too. Jesse Peterson said he had to leave a neighbor he lived in for the same reason.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Yep look at pro athletes, first thing they do as soon as sign that big contract is move to a white neighborhood with a white bitch.

    [–]neovulcan[S] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    there is absolutely no way it won’t eventually end up exactly how Reddit is.

    Some of America's founding fathers didn't think the Republic would last more than a couple decades. Here we are nearly 250 years later. While there are many differences, Reddit sadly only had Aaron Swartz to fend off the horde.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    The problem is that even though the horde is small and has the minority opinion they are the loudest. It’s like how most people will change the channel if a show they don’t like comes on, these mentally ill individuals will bitch and complain to the network on social media until they cancel the show.

    [–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    We jut have to pile in on them and tell them to fuck right off as soon as they start spouting their marxist bullshit. As soon as the key words and phrases from the little red book appear, give them the arseholes they deserve, and don't let up

    [–]ChiefKeefSosa 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Some of America's founding fathers didn't think the Republic would last more than a couple decades.

    Do you have a source for this? I would like to read about this.

    [–]neovulcan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If I had to guess, it's something I picked up while listening to The Great Upheaval by Jay Winik on audiobook with my Dad. It's a great book regardless, but I don't know exactly which chapters I missed since he listened to a good portion without me. I have a paper copy I swear I'll read cover to cover someday.

    [–]galaxybrain 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    But that's fine, it might be a shitshow at the end; then something else can take over. What matters is that actual discourse never dies

    [–]lestratege 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yeah it really is a question of size. However the fact that mod logs are public and miss are limited in how many sobs they can mod may curve the inevitable takeover by political correctness. I guess it's a cycle.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Hopefully it’s kept that way but if we see changes you will know what’s coming.

    [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    it has already started. Reddit refugees arrive, carrying their shitty reddit-tier circle jerk ways with them, ignoring site rules and generally carrying the contagion that killed reddit with them.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah I’ve noticed it too.

    [–]Canbot 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    "free speech" was more of an assumption on my part than a fundamental tenant of their platform

    No, it was explicitly stated by the founder that free speech was a tenant of the site. He was philosophically opposed to censorship he saw on other websites. They really did turn it into everything it was never supposed to be.

    [–]Dr_Bukkake 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    He even specifically stated that the founding fathers would be proud of him for creating a site where all opinions can be expressed no matter how controversial.

    [–]Aureus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Also, to respond to OP's xkcd comic, this version is a lot better.

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    And i appreciate it. I tone down my rhetoric for this site, as it is a normal friendly one, but I'm not going to moderate my language, and will freely call out cunts for being cunts. I've had some good debates here, and the more reddit-mod leftists types normally end up having to block me, rather than being able to silence me, as I stick to the rules and the pyramid of debate.

    As long as you weave your insults into a well written contribution that covers the pyramid peak, then its all good.

    [–]Yamyam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    They're shitting on Aaron Swartz.

    [–]neovulcan[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Thank you. Either I never knew where to look or it was removed before I started looking, but good to know just how good Aaron Swartz really was.

    [–]Aureus 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Btw, check out this response to the xkcd comic you posted. Randall has a fundamentally flawed view of free speech

    [–]neovulcan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    People were citing free speech when Google wouldn't run ads for, I think it was a car company or something. The thing is, what you permit says a little bit about your company as well. That car company probably wouldn't have been significant, but what if Google allowed porn ads? It'd be "free speech", and the industry would certainly pay, but it wouldn't be in Google's best interest.

    [–]blue1324 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    I got banned from r/Coronavirus for just adding "Wuhan Lab" in one of my posts. Reddit is turning into a propaganda engine.

    [–]Wrang1er 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

    Because its been proven false, they don't want lies in that sub.

    [–]Canbot 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    You can't prove a negative, so if you literally believe it has been proven that the virus did not originate at the Wuhan Lab you have been brainwashed.

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    technically you can. Like I can prove that the sun is not currently up in my sky...

    [–]Lastrevio 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    holy shit! do you have a link to your comment?

    [–]medium_tomato 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    This is exactly why they just banned GenderCritical without just simply locking it. Most of the GC crowd came to check out what all the "hate" is and would find reasonable non hateful posts with mostly reasonable people. That would make them realize that it is actually SJWs and TRAs that are very hateful and call for actual violence.. couldn't have that so hence the nuke.

    [–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Most of the GC crowd came to check out what all the "hate" is and would find reasonable non hateful posts with mostly reasonable people.

    Yeah, about that. I've read some of the most vile and hateful anti-trans statement in GC. I mean, whatever, trans people are fucking insane, but when some fat fuck lesbian starts saying that trans people deserve being raped, then you know you are in loony land.

    [–]lemmiz 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    got any proof of these pro rape statements or are you just making up lies?

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    yeah, I totally lie about shit just for the internet attention.

    Why not ask bull dyke mod #1 what she thinks about trans freak's genitalia, get the biz from the horse's mouth.

    [–]lemmiz 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I'm asking for proof of pro rape statements. you have none? I guess you lie just like AgainstHateSubreddits, who got everyone banned with their bullshit.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I think there is probably some hate on both sides to be fair. I've seen enough posts on GC and PPF to suggest actually they just vociferously hate men, and their hatred of trans-women is just an extension of that. Don't ever seem to see the same hatred directed at trans-men. I agree with a lot of what GC stands for, but don't think I can deny they have a misandrist problem, just as many of the mgtow and MRA subs do with misogynists.

    [–]lemmiz 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Don't ever seem to see the same hatred directed at trans-men.

    That's because there's more men who identify as trans who are rapists than the opposite, so women have more of a reason to hate men in dresses who invade their spaces. Reddit had a good sub for documenting violent men who are trans, but it's now private thanks to the trans cult.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200118044755/https://www.reddit.com/r/thisneverhappens/

    Which isn't to say that all men who identify as trans are rapists, of course not, but I haven't seen many, if any, news articles about women who identify as trans raping people. Though it likely has happened, it's not as common.

    "Suck my girldick" is also a regular threat from men who are trans directed at terfs and lesbians (who obviously don't want to fuck them), while not as many women who think they're men are telling people they hate to lick their boycunt.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaJf3trX0AAa-FI.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/W3tHGVT.png

    I also know of at least one recorded physical assault on a terf by a man who is trans, and who attacked her solely for her politics. I don't know of any physical assaults targeted at terfs by women who identify as trans, but maybe I just haven't heard about them. Nor do I know of any physical attacks by terfs on trans people.

    https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/04/27/trans-identified-male-tara-wolf-charged-assault-hyde-park-attack/

    [–]beermeem 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Reddit died with Aaron. People need to stop holding a candle for what it was. Now it’s just Condé Nast for commie kiddies to continue the mis-education they got in their ivory tower.

    [–]konoplya 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    without excessive moderation and censorship, every forum eventually becomes right leaning. leftists need censorship in order for their ideas to live.

    [–]BuboTitan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    These things go in cycles. First Digg.com went by the wayside, and so Reddit took over. Now I predict this is Reddit's sunset in favor of another site. Saidit, Voat, or something else.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Reddit was actually a equal competitor with digg even before digg changed. I was around on reddit when the exodus happened and frankly digg users lowered the tone on reddit. Before that reddiquette was followed quite well across the site, moderation was quite hands off. The influx of new users that just didn't give a fuck about reddit's founding principles was the start of its downfall.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Reddit has been a shithole for a while now. Except they now openly admit to the double-standards and selectively enforced rules people were accusing them of. After all the years of denying it, they actually put it in writing.

    I wonder if these sites know this censorship will sink them, but they don't care.

    [–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That is why they do it incrementally, they think they will see the decline before it happens and they can pull back with the censorship and stop it. Then when the last measure becomes normalized they take it one step further. If Reddit turned into what it is today overnight it would have collapsed 10 years ago. As of right now it is still in the top 20 most trafficked websites.

    [–]ManWithABanana 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Welcome to you ! Let's all try to make this a place that we enjoy.

    [–]Fleursdumal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    No matter what most places will end up curated to a certain extent. Having trolls stink up your posts isn't fun but having too much moderation also isn't fun. You have to find somewhere at the level you like it. Having been on the internet a while, I think the best places are the old school forums. Not everyone likes that format but I like how everyone has an equal voice. Nobody gets pushed at the top because they have a popular opinion. The moderation depends on the site owner. Take it or leave it. You can always start your own private forum if you're not happy.

    [–]mrgoober 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This guy doesnt get it.

    [–]TurbulenceImpact 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    ya know, honestly, Trump hate is so strong and anything that doesn't anti-trump in their flavor will get you in trouble. I'm libertarian as well and despise all this censorship directed at everyone who doesn't scream the democrat mantras. "oh well I guess it's Biden this time" because it's ok to ignore is obvious sexism and whoring.

    [–]ChristianSonnenkreuz 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I have some sympathy, as Reddit needs to protect their brand name, and "free speech" was more of an assumption on my part than a fundamental tenant of their platform. As Randall put it...

    This is why you will continue to lose forever and ever until people with your opinions are totally gone. Have no sympathy for reddit. What they are doing is objectively wrong. Anti-whiteness in white countries should be a serious crime. Reddit has 0 moral right whatsoever to censor any pro-white content from TD to ConsumeProduct. You must internalize this and move forward with it in your heart that these people are bad people and must be stopped.

    [–]neovulcan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Perhaps I didn't phrase it very well, but the anti-whiteness is a large part of what bothers me, and why I came here. The sympathy was for some of the other thoroughly degenerate subs that got banned. To lump TD in with those deserving? Not leave any evidence to allow for discussion? That's worth fighting.

    [–]BigFatRetard 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    It's ironic, reading that comic.

    Jon Stewart in one of his interviews with Ron Paul pointed out that government isn't the only one who can abridge your rights, I think he was referring to corporations at that time.

    So a defense of left wing cancel culture opposes one of the most respected left wing media critics. If we're being honest, sucking up to corporations to induce censorship is anathema to the left wing values I grew up with.

    [–]neovulcan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    So, as far as common ground, I'll agree left wing cancel culture has gone too far. Both their targets and their rationale leave much to be desired.

    In defense of corporations in general, the individual right to free speech does not entitle that individual to the labor of those employed by the corporation. Simply speaking, you can say what you want, you just aren't entitled to, say, Facebook's platform to do it. If we truly want a platform we can petition to the government to moderate, perhaps we can petition our congressmen to fund www.socialmedia.gov, and pass laws to moderate it appropriately. I think we all know how efficient government is at, well, anything really.

    [–]BigFatRetard 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I would agree with you, except that not one of these companies succeeded because they were the absolute best. The government sponsored the basic technologies, governments around the world paid ungodly amounts of money to pick winners, the government gives massive subsidies and sweetheart deals, and beyond that governments grant ridiculous monopolies in a number of ways.

    Even something like cda 230 or the DMCA -- companies not specifically targeted by these laws would give their left nut for the sort of total immunity they provide. Could you imagine car companies with total immunity from major types of litigation? Manufacturing? Restaurants? Medicine?

    So I see it as "live by the sword, die by the sword". You get these huge benefits, you have to serve everyone. If you want to start sticking your fingers in and abusing those ridiculous benefits, you go back to being a normal company and you can make a go of it like any other company.

    [–]neovulcan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That's a fair philosophy. I honestly don't know how far the subsidies and sweetheart deals go, but I've always figured they were few and far between. I remember when the auto industry was collapsing, Ford was the only major American car maker that didn't take a bailout on government terms. Wouldn't a bailout like that come with terms?

    [–]soyboy77 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The only thing reddit is good for nowadays is r/gonewild

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