Bi-cycling/Fluctuating

submitted by PenseePansy from (self.Bisexuals)

By which I mean, feeling your attraction to each sex waxing and waning. Maybe an increase towards one results in a decrease towards the other... or maybe not. Maybe this only happens with one sex, while your attraction to the other remains constant. Or maybe even the way that you bi-cycle/fluctuate has itself been known to cycle/fluctuate!

This is a subject that particularly interests me, since it seems so quintessentially bisexual: while we don't all experience it, ONLY we experience it-- those who are exclusively single-sex-attracted cannot, by definition.

Do you have any experience with this phenomenon? How does it work for you? Do you see any patterns? How do you feel about it, and does it pose any challenges, especially in a monogamous relationship? Do you think that it's something most monosexuals can understand, and not be disapproving of and/or threatened by? Is this what you call it, or do you prefer another name? All thoughts are welcome!

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[–]ChodeSandwich 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So far in my life, I don't fluctuate very much. I can be obsessed with new crushes/infatuation or have cravings for my partner specifically - not that these are bisexually exclusive experiences, of course.

Can monosexual people come to understand it? I see it as being similar to bridging the gap between men understanding women's sexuality and vice versa. Someone who Isn't can never have the visceral lived experiences of someone who Is, but starting conversations like this is a key part of removing the mystery that lets people get anxious and start filling in the blanks on their own. The Truth must be accessible in order for people to learn from it.

This post was written after Valentine's Day alcohol wiped its ass with my sleep cycle, so hopefully it made sense.

[–]PenseePansy[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can monosexual people come to understand it? I see it as being similar to bridging the gap between men understanding women's sexuality and vice versa. Someone who Isn't can never have the visceral lived experiences of someone who Is, but starting conversations like this is a key part of removing the mystery that lets people get anxious and start filling in the blanks on their own. The Truth must be accessible in order for people to learn from it.

Good way of putting it. Yeah, they're certainly capable of understanding this phenomenon (it's hardly rocket science, after all!)... guess the part they really have to work on is understanding that they NEED to; that we deserve to be understood. On our own terms. Listened to; taken seriously. As opposed to being seen only through a monosexual lens... and thus always found wanting. Like we're no more than an inferior reflection of them. Or a punchline.

That's the overall challenge, I suppose; how do we get through to monosexuals with this message? "We're a sexual orientation, like you; not "half-gay, half-straight"... we're our own thing. You need to learn what that means. To us. Instead of assuming that we're either basically the same as you, or some weird aliens. Have respect for our differences. And our experience."

This post was written after Valentine's Day alcohol wiped its ass with my sleep cycle, so hopefully it made sense.

It certainly did, plus putting it this way made me lol for real :) I wish you a sleep cycle that's shed all vestiges of Valentine's Day ass-wipery!

[–]ElectricSheep 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Absolute pain in the ass, and even more frustrating is that I don't know whether it's internally motivated, externally, or both (neither?). All I know is that it's exhausting.

[–]PenseePansy[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah :( I'm sorry that this is a negative thing for you; maybe having a place to talk about it where the phenomenon isn't automatically condemned ("this means that you're gonna cheat! See, you bisexuals can't be monogamous! You're just a sex maniac!") might help? At least a little? (Hope so anyway.)

If it isn't too personal, may I ask whether, when you're in a relationship, this affects your desire for your partner? Does your attraction to them decrease when your attraction to their opposite sex increases? And/or does it affect your attraction to the sex that isn't "on the upswing" in general? Or do you feel more attracted to one without feeling less attracted to the other?

Also, what is it that makes your "fluctuation" so frustrating/exhausting/pain-in-the-ass-y? Could this perhaps be somewhat alleviated by thinking of it as intrinsic to bisexuality? A natural (if sometimes inconvenient) consequnce of being attracted to both sexes? Maybe you're judging it too much by monosexual standards, you know? When stuff like this may work quite differently for us, and not mean the same thing as it does for them. I realize that it can be difficult to shake the feeling of "unlike monosexuals = WRONG!!!"... but hopefully not impossible :)

[–]ElectricSheep 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

context: I'm male

Not currently with anyone, but in the past I didn't mention it. My female exes knowing I'm bi at all was enough for them to be on the lookout, so to speak, and it always felt like I was one wrong phrase away from "ah ha! Gay in denial!"

It's exhausting because I never really know what's going to grab my attention in my brain. Even once in a while I'll be chilling with friends I've known for years, and my brain goes "oh that was cute, what if..." and I just have to roll my eyes at myself and wait for the thought to finish. Then the opposite happens, like I'm with my partner and my brain just doesn't cooperate. I know this happens to everyone but it's annoying that there's the second layer, if that makes sense. And despite being very monogamous, it doesn't seem to alleviate the extra concern that seems to go along with it all.

On the other hand, sometimes it's a nice surprise when you get a little eye candy where you don't expect it, but in general I'm not looking and not interested in starting a new relationship so it's just a little pointless. It's nice when watching movies, but annoying in real life, I guess.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do cycle. And I hate it. A lot. Sometimes I'm so fixated on a particular guy I'm convinced I'm straight. Other times I'm so enamored by a girl she's all I think about. I don't know what causes it, it might be hormonal for all I know. But I think monosexuals can understand. It's like how sometimes you and your SO have really good stretches of time. You're really into them. They're really into you. Things are going well. Other times they kind of get on your nerves and you don't wanna be in the same room as them. Sometimes things are more chill and you're neither all over each other nor at each other's throats. Monosexual attraction waxes and wanes the same way. Everyone's does.

[–]Taln_Reich 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you have any experience with this phenomenon? How does it work for you?

I'd say yes, some days I'm leaning more towards men, other days more towards women.

Do you see any patterns?

not really, no. Though I sometimes wish I could see a pattern.

How do you feel about it, and does it pose any challenges, especially in a monogamous relationship?

I'm currently not in a relationship, but if I were, I don't think it would be too much of a problem. I don't think that it is that strong for me, and an established relationship is definitely strong enough to keep the challenge low, unless the relationship already has other, more serious problems.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ah, no. What are you all referring to here? Porn use? Feeling attraction to strangers? I'm attracted to individuals of either sex, no just a whole sex in general. I don't believe in the "cycle". Some days I might pass by an attractive woman, some days (rarely) I might pass by an attractive man. That's not my sexuality "cycling". I just happen to see a lot of strangers I find attractive who are of a certain sex, or happen to have a crush on someone I know of a certain sex. It's random chance. I have never experienced a "cycle" and don't relate to those bis who say they have/do. I also have the same "type" for men and women. I'm female, for reference.

[–]PenseePansy[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What are you all referring to here? Porn use? Feeling attraction to strangers?

Any and all forms of attraction: on an individual basis, and/or in general. Including fantasy/imagination and just an overall heightened awareness of a sex's appeal to you. Whatever someone experiences-- I'm sure that there's a lot of variation, and as far as I'm concerned, it all "counts". Only just realized that this had been left undefined; thanks for making me think about what I actually meant!

I don't believe in the "cycle".

Do you believe in the "cycle" for those bisexuals who report experiencing it?

I have never experienced a "cycle" and don't relate to those bis who say they have/do. I also have the same "type" for men and women.

I don't think that I've ever experienced it either, actually, though it's hard to be sure, since the way that I'm attracted to each sex feels so different; it's something of an "apples & oranges" situation for me. Possibly because my "type" isn't entirely unisex, and/or I may have PTSD with respect to men. Which prompts me to ask: do gender-roles not influence your feelings for each sex, then? Such as potential misogyny from men, resulting in a kind of caution that you wouldn't have with women?

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think a lot of bis who report experiencing "the cycle" are people who don't lean very heavily towards one sex or another, so their attraction appears to "cycle" due to random encounters. As someone who quit porn after using it regularly, I also think that this is heavily influenced by porn use. After quitting, I no longer have a fixation on sex or daily fantasies. My type is very rigid, and involves certain amount of femininity. Not like makeup and dresses, but long hair and a playful, non-stoic personality, and yeah, that's unisex. I tend to find that most men who fit that aren't very misogynistic unless they're religious (which is a no from me), but either way, I think I'm a good judge of character after a lot of shitty experiences, and I'm outspoken and unfeminine, which tends to be a turn-off for misogynists, so I'm not really targeted by them romantically, but there's always a need for a certain caution around men you don't know. I understand not wanting to deal and choosing to pursue women instead. I'd say that my attraction to men and women is the same and not influenced by gender roles. I take the masculine role in relationships, even with men. I'm curious, do gender roles influence your feelings for each sex, and in what way?

[–]PenseePansy[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think a lot of bis who report experiencing "the cycle" are people who don't lean very heavily towards one sex or another, so their attraction appears to "cycle" due to random encounters. As someone who quit porn after using it regularly, I also think that this is heavily influenced by porn use. After quitting, I no longer have a fixation on sex or daily fantasies.

I hadn't thought of this; really interesting take. While I don't seem to lean heavily either way (or at least the "apples-and-oranges"-ness of it all makes comparison difficult), "the cycle" still hasn't been a thing for me. The closest I come is my attraction to men getting blocked by what looks like PTSD (never been diagnosed), sometimes for long stretches, but this feels different than what those experiencing fluctuation describe.

I'm curious, do gender roles influence your feelings for each sex, and in what way?

I think that they do.

With men, I find the sort of personality that often results off-putting at best and threatening at worst; I'm also actively afraid of men in general. But the flip side is that they tend to be rather emotionally-contained/reserved, which I like (in moderation). And being less empathic can also make them less inclined towards the kind of "feelz > reelz", who-cares-about-facts-or-reason attitudes that piss me off no end.

More women are "my type" personality-wise, and they haven't been socialized to use physical violence against me. But the female gender-role's emphasis on beauty/prettiness really influenced me, and if I find a woman attractive, it's hard not to compare myself unfavorably to her. The whole "lesbian U-Haul" thing is also scary to me in some ways; it feels like emotional overload. And women often have a penchant for the kind of "bleeding-heart"-ism that makes them prone to becoming SJWs/trans-dupes (I first saw this many years ago, when the dogs-running-loose-in-public-is-a-civil-right! movement was at its zenith where I live; its most aggressive-- fanatical really-- proponents were all women), which really bugs me.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The closest I come is my attraction to men getting blocked by what looks like PTSD.

Don't feel the need to try to force yourself to be attracted to men (not saying you are), because the majority of men are scummy (the majority of women aren't that great either, but my point still stands), and if you're put-off by a man, you should trust your instincts. I have plenty of male friends, and I meet men all the time (at school) who I just don't like right away, usually because their personalities are, as you said, "off-putting at best and threatening at worst", but most men who act like this are just putting on an act, and are really bitches. If confronted, they show themselves to be cowardly.

[Men] tend to be rather emotionally-contained/reserved.

Lol, not in my experience. Men tend to express emotions they deem feminine, which is basically all positive emotions, less than women do. That's what I mean when I say I prefer men with a more "feminine" personality, even for friendships. However, men express negative emotions a lot more than women do, such as complaining and yelling, since those behaviors in boys aren't punished or are mildly punished, as opposed to little girls, whose anger people attempt to stamp out.

women often have a penchant for the kind of "bleeding-heart"ism that makes them prone to becoming SJWs/trans-dupes

Yeah, I think we're in agreement here. This is why I prefer a partner with some masculine and some feminine traits. A kind person who expresses themselves and stands up for themselves, but has a couple band-aids on their heart lol.

if I find a woman attractive, it's hard not to compare myself unfavorably to her

Thankfully, I broke free from that a few years ago. I simply stopped giving a fuck about feminine beauty rituals, and no longer compare my looks to anyone because why tf should I care as long as I'm clean? Partner-wise, I would not want someone who dresses hyper-feminine and wears makeup, since I tend to just feel bad for those people. They can be really attractive tho lol, but someone who's comfortable in their own skin will be worlds more attractive to me.

"lesbian U-Haul"

I've only experienced something like this once. I won't go into too much detail, but I chatted with a girl (I was quite young) for one day on a dating app, and she needed somewhere to stay for a night because of a bad housing situation. I was weirded out, and nothing remotely sexual/romantic happened. She wanted to stay longer, but I asked if there was anywhere else she could go, and there was. I was a lot younger back then, and it wasn't my house. Hope everything went ok for her.

dogs-running-loose-in-public-is-a-civil-right! movement

Lol yep, I once knew a woman who was like that.

[–]MarkJefferson 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Do you have any experience with this phenomenon? How does it work for you? Do you see any patterns?

Yes, and especially in the last 2 months. I've been feeling one bumping up a LOT and grabbing so much more of my attention and waking thoughts and the other becoming significantly depressed to the point of me almost becoming apathetic. It could just be relative to one another, but it doesn't feel like either was static during this period. This is not at all common for me, as for most of my life, they are on average usually in equilibrium, maybe some short term jostling but with the exception of my pre and early teens, neither attraction would exceed the other significantly for such a span of time.

Idk, I have going through something a bit unprecedented as of late so maybe it's related to or stemming by that. Or perhaps it's the other way around and the cycling is the true cause of the upheaval here. Chicken-egg. Or it could all be in my head, too, and I actually never changed...

How do you feel about it, and does it pose any challenges, especially in a monogamous relationship? Do you think that it's something most monosexuals can understand, and not be disapproving of and/or threatened by?

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it. I'm not in a relationship, but I think this sort of long-term fluctuation in particular could conceivably cause some issues with monogamous relationships in a similar way that a lengthy loss of romantic attraction/libido could cause a problem for a monosexual in their relationship. I don't think it's something that's thoroughly unique to bisexuals. Of course, the elephant in the room is that Bisexuals can have some competition for their affection from one sex that the other sex wouldn't necessarily be able to adequately satisfy. And this possibility can be unsettling for Monosexuals(and even other Bisexuals). For this reason, Bisexuals tend to downplay the significance or existence of these fluctuations in order to reassure a potential or current partner, but I think doing so is to deny a fundamental aspect of themselves. I do think monosexuals can learn to understand this. But they will probably need to know the Bi individual well enough, because I think this cycling works somewhat differently for everyone. And apparently there are also some characteristic differences between the sexes when it comes to these cycles as well.

Is this what you call it, or do you prefer another name?

It'll have to do for now until someone comes up with a better pun.

[–]PenseePansy[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for taking the time to give such a thoughtful and detailed response!

First, hope that this sense of upheaval (whatever its source) is something that you can at least ride out, and perhaps even learn/benefit from. I've been experiencing something similar recently-- in my case it's more like belated emotional growth-- and can attest that just because there's a silver lining does NOT make the process easy, or painless. And of course it can be less a matter of change/growth than just... shit you hafta go through sometimes. I certainly sympathize in either case.

Sounds like my post could hardly have been timed better from your perspective, huh? Me: "do you experience "bi-cycling"/fluctuation?" You: "AND HOW!!!" To say the least! Interesting that this is an entirely new phenomenon for you. And also associated (whether coincidentally/causally or not) with upheaval in your life. Wonder if this might even be something of a pattern among bisexuals? Amazing how little seems to be known about us, isn't it? I really feel as though study of the LG has reached grad-school level while we're still struggling to put together Bi 101. Especially when it comes to bi-specific stuff like this.

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it. I'm not in a relationship, but I think this sort of long-term fluctuation in particular could conceivably cause some issues with monogamous relationships in a similar way that a lengthy loss of romantic attraction/libido could cause a problem for a monosexual in their relationship. I don't think it's something that's thoroughly unique to bisexuals. Of course, the elephant in the room is that Bisexuals can have some competition for their affection from one sex that the other sex wouldn't necessarily be able to adequately satisfy.

Yes; I also find myself wondering how many forms this could take, in a monogamous relationship-- desire for what's unique to the sex that you're not with. Strictly physical? Is it sometimes just a matter of wanting those other secondary/primary sex characteristics? Can it be about how male and female acculturation tend to produce rather different personalities? And/or simply that our attraction to each sex is itself very different-- in what we find appealing, the "rules" governing it, even how it FEELS to us-- so they're essentially apples & oranges: inherently not comparable?

This last also suggests a built-in problem with monogamy even for those of us who don't experience "bi-cycling"/fluctuation: we could be thoroughly satisfied with our partner as far as THAT sex goes... and also find that this doesn't dampen our desire for the OTHER sex one bit. Cuz of the "apples and oranges" factor. In fact, where the sex-we're-not-with is concerned, we could feel as though we're effectively single... even LONELY! How's THAT for making bisexuals look like the mates-from-hell?

Could the upshot of all this be that the whole "poly" thing (eyeroll-worthy as it so often is) means something different for bisexuals than monosexuals? At least those of us who experience such a strong pull towards "both", either periodically or constantly? Because while we're certainly not ALL that way... this really is one natural outcome of being "dual-attracted", isn't it? That some of us would experience our bisexuality like this seems inevitable.

Is this what you call it, or do you prefer another name?

It'll have to do for now until someone comes up with a better pun.

:) "Cyclilust", maybe? (I'll show myself out...)

[–]MarkJefferson 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time to give such a thoughtful and detailed response!

Yeah, no problem. Thanks for introducing topics into the Bi sub.

First, hope that this sense of upheaval (whatever its source) is something that you can at least ride out, and perhaps even learn/benefit from. I've been experiencing something similar recently-- in my case it's more like belated emotional growth-- and can attest that just because there's a silver lining does NOT make the process easy, or painless. And of course it can be less a matter of change/growth than just... shit you hafta go through sometimes. I certainly sympathize in either case.

Lol- Some of this hits too close to home. I've been avoiding(something I'm very good at) my own emotional growth for too long. Something(or series of somethings) happened years ago which stalled it out. If it can give an analogy, it's like I was about to walk into a chamber full of hoarded treasure. I was relatively optimistic, and emotionally unburdened at that point. Perhaps naïve. Suddenly, a Dragon bursts in and inundates the whole chamber with fire. Objects inside burn and char. I duck to the side as the flames blast through the doorway. I'm safe here, but the impression of that scene is seared into my memory. For the longest time, I couldn't even bring myself to look through that doorway. Now, I am finally peering into that chamber, and sizing things up. The Dragon- is still there, and fairly settled in; Maybe even complacent. And I finally get a good look at the treasure. It's mostly undamaged, and incredible. It's all the things I most want in life; Just sitting there, this whole time.

But I digress. Life was so simple when I would distract myself from this truth in the form of comfortable and unthreatening pastimes...

Sounds like my post could hardly have been timed better from your perspective, huh? Me: "do you experience "bi-cycling"/fluctuation?" You: "AND HOW!!!" To say the least! Interesting that this is an entirely new phenomenon for you. And also associated (whether coincidentally/causally or not) with upheaval in your life. Wonder if this might even be something of a pattern among bisexuals?

Yeah, it might be. I guess I'll be doing some reading to see if anyone has wrote about this before.

Amazing how little seems to be known about us, isn't it? I really feel as though study of the LG has reached grad-school level while we're still struggling to put together Bi 101. Especially when it comes to bi-specific stuff like this.

It's still in Grade school. Most people don't understand where Bisexual fluctuations fit in, even bisexuals. Admittedly, I've only relatively recently begun properly reading up on the minority sexualities myself. And it almost seems like the more robust research or insight was made in the past. I'm somewhat wary of more recent research becoming adulterated with what can be called, statistical inundation from superficial Heterosexual interest. A good example is the surges of Bisexual-Identifying people in the younger generations. Is it really because they are a lot less afraid/more open to coming out now? Or they just like the idea of being unique from their peers and coming out is one simple way of setting themselves apart from them? Nevertheless, I feel like this ambiguity was a lot less of a possibility in the past.

The definition of Bisexuality was a lot clearer in the past as well. Now, when I read some of the definitions, I feel sorry for those just beginning to discover their sexuality. Attraction to more than one gender? 2 or more genders? All/any genders? I'm so glad I wasn't faced with all these 'non-binary' definitions when I was younger. It took merely a month in Autumn from first seeing the label to using it on myself. A decade of sexual confusion ended in a month. It would've instead taken a lot longer for me nowadays.

Yes; I also find myself wondering how many forms this could take, in a monogamous relationship-- desire for what's unique to the sex that you're not with. Strictly physical? Is it sometimes just a matter of wanting those other secondary/primary sex characteristics? Can it be about how male and female acculturation tend to produce rather different personalities? And/or simply that our attraction to each sex is itself very different-- in what we find appealing, the "rules" governing it, even how it FEELS to us-- so they're essentially apples & oranges: inherently not comparable?

I think they are completely different in some fundamental ways. It's not just a matter of same-sex or opposite-sex attraction. It's a matter of attraction to Males or Females, and one can't substitute for the other. This is why I think researchers should always denote the sexes in the studies they do, instead of just labeling the data from a "Bisexual", "Homosexual". Yeah, saying "Lesbians", and "Gay males" is better, but Bisexuals are frequently taken as all one group for some reason. We're not some unisex amalgamation lol

This last also suggests a built-in problem with monogamy even for those of us who don't experience "bi-cycling"/fluctuation: we could be thoroughly satisfied with our partner as far as THAT sex goes... and also find that this doesn't dampen our desire for the OTHER sex one bit. Cuz of the "apples and oranges" factor. In fact, where the sex-we're-not-with is concerned, we could feel as though we're effectively single... even LONELY! How's THAT for making bisexuals look like the mates-from-hell?

I feel like this could be a bad look for Bi PR. Maybe put this on the docket as a discussion at the next secret Bi-Global Syndicate meeting.

Could the upshot of all this be that the whole "poly" thing (eyeroll-worthy as it so often is) means something different for bisexuals than monosexuals? At least those of us who experience such a strong pull towards "both", either periodically or constantly? Because while we're certainly not ALL that way... this really is one natural outcome of being "dual-attracted", isn't it? That some of us would experience our bisexuality like this seems inevitable.

There are people like this, but they may be the type who would be "poly" whether or not they were born bisexual or monosexual. Either way, it does seem like Bi's could be more susceptible to this possibility for the reason you described.

:) "Cyclilust", maybe? (I'll show myself out...)

LOL

P.S. Don't need to respond to this; It's kinda late and a tad too long and rambling anyway.