People who are antiporn - Are all kinds of erotic material bad?

submitted by SeasideLimbs from (self.AskSaidIt)

I see a lot of radical feminists accusing Pornhub of facilitating sex trafficking and criticizing the conditions in the porn industry, particularly for female actresses. I also see some people on the right call porn "degenerate."

Do you consider all erotic material bad in some way, like amateur porn, videos made and uploaded by women themselves, sexual fiction or drawings?

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[–]Anatolia 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Do you consider all erotic material bad in some way, like amateur porn, videos made and uploaded by women themselves, sexual fiction or drawings?

yes, we are overerotizing and intending to trigger the animalistic brain of ours that clouds higher level thinking. i deleted my massive nudes collection from girls who have sent them to me because even though its consensual or whatever, its an overeroticiziation that makes you think of other humans as sex objects rather than, well, humans.

sex is best enjoyed and utilized between humans who love each other to strengthen bonds, tame the animalistic desire, and to build, create families, create positive relations towards others.

videos made and uploaded by women themselves

a lot of these women might have been abused, molested, raped, etc. and this is a way to "empower" themselves.

sexual fiction or drawings

just drugs to attempt to increase libido

[–]ISaidWhatISaid 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No one is answering yet, so let me answer this one for them, since their opinions are widely known.

When it comes to rightwingers, about a decade ago the American sex store Good Vibrations did a survey of their customers (I don't know if they still do this) and about half of them said they were Republicans. Those customers said they would happily buy straight porn at GD, just not any of the queer porn or gay porn. So yeah, rightwingers are the same hypocrites with regards to porn they have always been. They will happily consume straight porn or couples porn with hubby, they just don't want everyone else having their porn.

With regards to radfems, they think all porn is bad, including drawings, animations, written porn, etc. Especially when it's DIY on OnlyFans (which they only see as a gateway to mainstream porn) because according to radfems those women on OnlyFans are so completely brainwashed by the Patriarchial porn culture that they have been perverted to the point where they happily volunteer to sexually degrade themselves for other men's pleasure. Not because they are actually narcissistic or exhibitionistic, no true and honest woman is ever any of those things according to radfems. Radfems believe that women's motivations for having sex are always selfless, pure and sincere, never self-serving or manipulative. If a woman does do something sexually degrading online - and merely exposing yourself in a sexually suggestive manner is already degrading to women according to radfems - she is only doing it because of Patriarchal porn-brainwashing to the point of self-exploitation, not because of a rational cost-benefit analysis on her part. Definitely not because she genuinely likes it herself or even due to inherent narcissism and vanity. Radfems aggressively deny the fact that some women enjoy riling men up sexually for money. Female narcissism and female exhibitionism are taboo topics in radical feminism, that's why radfems prefer to talk about "femininity" instead, because that term is safe for the mainstream and allows radfems to deny the sheer levels of sexual self-interest at work on the part of women who expose themselves online.

That said, pornhub = trafficking hub, no doubt about it. OnlyFans is no better, OnlyFans has almost no oversight and this enables pedos and groomers to find underage victims there. 80% of caught CP consumers later admitted they had already diddled kids, so the "it's just a fantasy for the sake of sexual catharsis" argument is BS right there. Pedos seek out CP because that's what they actually want to do to kids. The question is: can you have online porn without CP? Or does the latter come with the territory? Radfems for example insist that all porn roads lead to CP eventually, because porn infantilizes women (for example in DDLG)/has a preference for ever younger women (see "barely legal" category) so you will inevitably end up with CP at some point, they insist.

[–]Anatolia 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Radfems believe that women's motivations for having sex are always selfless, pure and sincere, never self-serving or manipulative. If a woman does do something sexually degrading online - and merely exposing yourself in a sexually suggestive manner is already degrading to women according to radfems - she is only doing it because of Patriarchal porn-brainwashing to the point of self-exploitation, not because of a rational cost-benefit analysis on her part.

I wouldn't say this is common to all "radfem" style of thinking. It is there, but I wouldn't generalize like that.

Radfems aggressively deny the fact that some women enjoy riling men up sexually for money. Female narcissism and female exhibitionism are taboo topics in radical feminism, that's why radfems prefer to talk about "femininity" instead, because that term is safe for the mainstream and allows radfems to deny the sheer levels of sexual self-interest at work on the part of women who expose themselves online.

I think it is more because radfems tend towards "materialist" way of thinking. They would say that the oppressive conditions on women drives them to sex work more often than actual greed and gold digging, which I think has a lot of merit. That doesn't discount the general degeneracy of the middle class of women who don't need that.

so the "it's just a fantasy for the sake of sexual catharsis" argument is BS right there. Pedos seek out CP because that's what they actually want to do to kids. The question is: can you have online porn without CP? Or does the latter come with the territory? Radfems for example insist that all porn roads lead to CP eventually, because porn infantilizes women (for example in DDLG)/has a preference for ever younger women (see "barely legal" category) so you will inevitably end up with CP at some point, they insist.

If your definition of CP is sub-18 porn, radfems definitely have a point. Remember when "jailbait" was a thing? Now its /tiktokthots or whatever.

[–]ISaidWhatISaid 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't say this is common to all "radfem" style of thinking

It's absolutely common amongst radfems, it's practically an article of belief. They will literally not entertain any other position than that women do porn because men force them to, or have brainwashed them into wanting to do, the latter of which is a "false consciousness" (according to the materialism you mentioned) so that can be dismissed because those women are just brainwashed by the patriarchy into exploiting and degrading themselves seemingly voluntairly but not really. No woman ever does anything sexual just for herself, at least according to radfems. Everything a woman does that appears to be sexual, even just walking around in a short skirt that shows off her hairy unshaved perfectly feminist legs, is a woman performing inadvertent sexual labour for men. This is inescapable according to radfems and the only way out of this is for a radfem to completely desexualize herself (no make-up, short hair, unshaved, adopt a butch look in dress, act cranky at all times, even change the way you walk "to take up more space"), supposedly for the sake of the sisterhood. But even then she can still be reduced to a sexual object because men can re-sexualize desexualized women just by looking at them (aka "The Male Gaze").

If your definition of CP is sub-18 porn, radfems definitely have a point. Remember when "jailbait" was a thing? Now its /tiktokthots or whatever.

I don't agree with them at all. So the Republican married couple that shops for straight couples porn at Good Vibrations (while avoiding anything gay), even they will evitably end up watching CP at some point down the road? This is basically a version of the "alt-right radicalization pipeline" theory, which we know is BS. Radfems have their own version of the same thing, they basically have a "porn radicalization pipeline" theory. I think it's inaccurate so suggest that porn boredom or desensitization will always lead to someone seeking out the most peverted degenerate stuff they can get their hands on in order to get their kicks from porn again. It's also possible that porn saturation might simply lead to someone quitting porn altogether because they realize that it doesn't work for them anymore. I've seen interviews with porn addicts and what they say is that they didn't necessarily seek more hardcore or more perverted porn overtime. Rather, they had an act or performer they were fixated on and wanted to see that particular act or performer over and over again. One of them tellingly said during the interview: "I wasn't addicted to porn. I was addicted to scrolling.". It was the design of the online porn experience, the sheer volume available plus the repetition that got them addicted.

[–]samwhiskey 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, as it leads to more and more. Your own imagination and relationships are the only healthy outlets for sexual desires. All you have to do is watch the young kids grinding (or whatever) in the supermarket to imaginary music and shit they see on tv and social media. It's just not good. Plus the sexualizing of every thing even shit that is geared towards children.

[–]GConly 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I post on gendercritical, but I'm not a radfem...

From prior posts I've seen that the issue most of them have is down to the belief that porn leads to rape (it doesn't) and that the women are abused in the production (often true but not always).

So a lot of them are just anti porn all round because of the 'causes rape' BS.

I don't buy it. I dug through the research and it doesn't. For a start sexual assaults were common all through human history, and we observed rape as a common event in hunter gatherer tribes with zero porn.

The more porn a culture has access to the less rape you see. You can even see SA rates drop as porn becomes more accessible. What does correlate with sexual assaults are crappy patriarchal systems that blame women for tempting the men by their bodies being seen/outside the home. And not punishing rapists.

I have an issue with porn because a lot if the production is abusive. Which is why I watch animated porn.