Wtf has SaidIt done right that Ruqqus did wrong?

submitted by teelo from (self.AskSaidIt)

Their servers have been on fire since The Great Reddocalpyse of June 2020™, while I haven't had any issues with SaidIt even with the massive increase of traffic here.

Sure, they're running different forum software, but they're using the same DDOS protection as SaidIt now. So... eh?

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[–]quipu 36 insightful - 2 fun36 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Ruqqus is beta-quality software (they even say so), so it's still unoptimized and buggy. Saidit has been through dozens of DDOS attacks and has had time to refine its software. AND it is based on the old Reddit code, so they had a head start.

I like both places, they are different, but I hope Ruqqus gets it together soon. Can't use a website that's never up.

[–]Riva 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yup the original Reddit code written by Aaron is battle tested and durable. Other software doesn't come close and the DDoS protection developed here really helped as well. It's exciting to be here at the beginning.

[–]magnora7 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Saidit is built from software that's already battle-tested at a million hits a day, and had a team of 15 people working full-time for 7 years to optimize. The value of this cannot be overstated. It's like we got a old Ferrari engine for free instead of trying to design and build one from scratch

[–]Tums_is_Smut_bkwrds 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

15 people working full-time for 7 years

Can you back this up? It just sounds like an exaggerated claim, that's all.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That was the size of the reddit team and how many years between when it was first written and when it became the open-source we used.

I guess it was more like 10 years, 2005 to 2015. But I think they had at least 15 people working in it, as they got $20 million dollars of venture capital in 2005, and it only went up from there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit#History

[–]Tums_is_Smut_bkwrds 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That sounds more reasonable. Certainly they were working on optimization but it seems more likely to me that a significant part of the effort was maintenance, bug chasing, and other IT busy work. The info may actually be in the article you linked somewhere but I'm not invested enough to read it that closely.

Regardless there's no question that your point that the code was heavily optimized is valid; It really is a marvel.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

yep

[–]itsoktobewhite 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How are they behind cloudflare and still getting ddos?

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it's not ddos they just can't handle all of the users

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

could be both I'm sure reddit's chinese army backers are DDOsing all competitors.

[–]soundsalad 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

I personally like how Saidit is pretty much a copy of Reddit. I don't like Ruqqus' design.

[–]Wrang1er 11 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 6 fun -  (17 children)

Im the opposite, saidit needs a better design and downvotes

[–]teelo[S] 32 insightful - 32 fun32 insightful - 31 fun33 insightful - 32 fun -  (5 children)

I'd like to downvote your claim that we need downvotes.

[–]Wrang1er 6 insightful - 10 fun6 insightful - 9 fun7 insightful - 10 fun -  (4 children)

Thats why we need downvotes

[–]BadRNG 15 insightful - 23 fun15 insightful - 22 fun16 insightful - 23 fun -  (3 children)

Just upvote and then remove it. Very satisfaction

[–]Electronicles 9 insightful - 9 fun9 insightful - 8 fun10 insightful - 9 fun -  (2 children)

Why did I just try that on you

...It was a bit satisfying.

[–]teelo[S] 3 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 9 fun4 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

I just spent 10 seconds clicking on and clicking off the like for your comment. Take that! Yeaaah I really showed you. BAM!

[–]Wahwah 24 insightful - 7 fun24 insightful - 6 fun25 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

No downvotes please.

[–]Extract 19 insightful - 6 fun19 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

Ah, yes, we do indeed need the mechanic that made allows reddit communities to brigade and helps make it the echo chamber it is now.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yes upvote brigades are still possible. I think most consider the downvote brigading more sinister, as it can disappear content.

    [–]apoliticalinactivist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Agreed, the loss of content (dissenting views) is the primary cause of echo chambers.

    [–]Slutbuster 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    Nothing more satisfying than downvoting someone that you think is wrong.

    It's like shorthand for telling them they're an idiot - keeps things much more civil.

    [–]VulpesLeonesque 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Nah, I'm loving the lack of downvotes, saying whatever I think instead of self-censoring. Not signing out to see if I'm shadowbanned on a particular sub too, things like that. I've got hopes for this place, feels like reddit of years ago.

    No downvotes also means visibility for oddballs who believe weird things, some of which will eventually turn out to be true, if the lessons of the past are anything to go off.

    [–]Slutbuster 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    saying whatever I think instead of self-censoring

    Downvotes should never stop you from doing that. The shadowbans, on the other hand...

    [–]apoliticalinactivist 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    You're describing an echo chamber. That satisfaction is what makes it so tempting and popular across social media. Downvoting leaves you with that smug satisfaction without ever needing to engage the views of the other person. Deriving pleasure in your smug self satisfaction while reducing contact with others that you might not agree with? That's a circle jerk, lol.

    Civility/orderly is not the way of democracy. It's messy and sloppy because it has to be. Everything it thrown in and over time, the best floats to the top.

    [–]theoracle 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nothing more satisfying than downvoting someone that you think is wrong.It's like shorthand for telling them they're an idiot - keeps things much more civil.

    Except when people downvote stuff they just don't understand. As in it's the group that is wrong not the poster.

    Remember that time Galileo got down voted and banned?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

    I just assume the laughing face is a downvote aND i USe it like that

    [–]stupidmechanic 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Apart from forums, this is the only layout/design that I like. Most of the content on homepage is in text (you can click for image), comments are neatly arranged in tree fashion, comments don't have to be small unlike on some other websites and a bunch more reasons.

    [–]theoracle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I like saidits design more

    [–]VantaFount 19 insightful - 6 fun19 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

    If I had to take a guess (because all I can do is guess at this)
    it might be because magnora7 has helped this site to weather numerous DDoS attacks in the past months.
    He's gotten good at.....whatever it is he does.

    [–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Imo it's not about the DDOS at all. SaidIt has shared its DDOS mitigation code with Ruqqus. What it is about is Reddit worked on this saidit codebase for 10 years and it is designed for big traffic.

    Ruqqus is new and from scratch. Writing large scale systems is hard.

    [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah I was wondering this too. SaidIt is older, idk if they've had more time to stabilize and learn from attacks over time.

    [–]StBlops2cel_is_Lord 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

    Ruqqus is leasing server space from some kid in Mongolia, lol

    [–]Iam1ofMany 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    If this is true all I can do is shake my head. I had reached out to the owner to see if they needed an investor to help facilitate them getting up and running consistently. He said they were taking donations and I told him that wasn't what I was talking about. I asked him if he was having hardware or software issues and his reply was efficiency issues.

    If they don't want an investor, that is fine, just say that. But he kept mentioning donating several times in the conversation and that wasn't what I was talking about and made it quite clear. Why would I donate to a site that can't stay up and running?

    Right now is the time to have your server up and run consistently as you had a huge opportunity to get a ton of traffic from the exodus at Reddit.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    did you mean become a partner with him, have access to code and shit, I can see why he wouldn't want that from a stranger online

    [–]Iam1ofMany 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I wouldn’t necessarily want access to code but a say in how things come about. That is what investing is. I would have been willing to even meet with him. I have a lot of expertise in implementing software systems... over 20 years in the business. He just didn’t seem very interested. He could have just said I don’t want investors.

    [–]KennyLogins 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    If he wasn't asking for investors why would you even offer? If you've got 20 years in, you should fully understand there is a process to seeking and vetting investors. No one in their right mind is going to hand over direction to some guy off the street unless the investment offer is absurdly high.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah he probably just wants money, donations, now that is a risk if you give him money he might just shut down the site and take the cash, I wouldn't do it but there are people out there with cash to throw around I'm sure. "A say in how things come about" I'd say no to that. Especially with this kind of website, he needs anonymity, can't take chances, you could be a troll or govt shill. Not saying he is just yeah a lot of people have vested interests in sabotaging this reddit alternative sites.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah, they usually have no problem saying they're taking the same route as here- no investors no ads.

    [–]Newmug 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Did you offer to help Saidit?

    [–]StBlops2cel_is_Lord 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Hell, on that note, I too am taking donations!

    I hope these sites get it together, there is/will be a mass exodus from that stinking Commie hellhole that rhymes with 'Saidit'..

    [–]teelo[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Wait, what? Lol.

    [–]Cindy 3 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 9 fun4 insightful - 10 fun -  (1 child)

    Ruqqus is leasing server space from some kid in Mongolia, lol

    [–]aThievingStableboy 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

    asdfgas

    [–]cons_nc 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Not tried to reinvent the wheel

    [–]Ar4dqisrkt8hLx 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    I just signed up here after exploring Ruqqus for a few weeks (I'll continue to use both). I was never a big reddit user so my ideas may or may not be popular here, but here are a few thoughts on both:

    Obviously the servers and response time gives saidit a huge edge over ruqqus. I don't like that both sites are essentially copies of reddit as far as design. I think saidit is ugly while ruqqus is just another modern web dev/javascript whore site (these sites are never fully responsive, even the big ones, they can be fast but sometimes nothing happens when you click).

    As far as the forum concepts, I love that saidit has no up/downvotes. As others pointed out, this just leads to echo chambers. As a casual user, I never really up/downvoted anything on reddit (I just ignore stuff if it's dumb), and I think it's common that the power users just go crazy trying to influence the content. Ruqqus is probably doomed to failure because they have up/downvotes. I have openly asked over there what would happen if a mob invaded and there's really no good response. The only things they guarantee are that you won't be deleted (if legal) and mods will be limited. Good ideas, but not nearly enough. I think saidit could think about trying out more emoji response options (people are used to these and might make it more widely popular).

    Some things saidit could improve on are making it easier to find subs (I think a directory of subs should be more prominent). Also behind the scenes, put in an algorithm to identify groupthink clusters of users so you can better identify mobs when they come around (just to limit influence of their votes).

    [–]cloudrabbit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't like that both sites are essentially copies of reddit as far as design. I think saidit is ugly while ruqqus is just another modern web dev/javascript whore site

    What would be a good site design then?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I member back in 2016 voat really had a chance to be the new reddit, a lot of reasonable people were getting banned not just crazies, but when you went to voat it was always down, real missed opportunity there. DDOSes suck I know.

    [–]Spaceplone 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    i like "save" and "hide" buttons. for posts i didn't see them on ruqqus.

    also i like the much simpler design of saidit.

    [–]m68k 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    There still a minimum of 5 characters for a user name, my username here does not work in Ruqqus. I was told that was fixed, so I created a new account, and found the issue was still there, 5 characters minimum. Also, I still can't find the logout button... Saidit has it always in the corner.

    Note, I don't have any hate for Ruqqus, just fix those things please, and please stop telling me it's beta software. :)

    [–]EmilyA 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Great. I was just looking for help on Java. I am sure that now I can solve all my academic problems.